Sept. 30, 2024

Tim Kenneally, Employment Law Expert and Shareholder of Foley & Foley, PC

Tim Kenneally, Employment Law Expert and Shareholder of Foley & Foley, PC

Tim Kenneally, Shareholder and Employment Attorney with Foley & Foley PC, talks about his 34 years as a litigator. He represents clients in matters involving employment and labor law, data security & personal information protection, insurance,...

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Tim Kenneally, Shareholder and Employment Attorney with Foley & Foley PC, talks about his 34 years as a litigator. He represents clients in matters involving employment and labor law, data security & personal information protection, insurance, contracts and litigation.

Tim has successfully resolved hundreds of cases in state and federal courts, at the MCAD, at the EEOC and other administrative agencies.

He has negotiated, drafted and enforced a multitude of employment and business contracts.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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CY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments

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should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for

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choosing W FOURCY Radio.

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Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are

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condemned to repeat it. Kevin helen n believes that certainly

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applies to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at

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W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com

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and now your host, Kevin Helena.

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Thanks everybody for joining in again today. I am Kevin

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Hallanan and welcome back to Winning Business TV and Radio

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on w FI or CWY dot com. We're streaming live

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on talkfor TV dot com. That's the number four, in

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addition to being on Facebook Live. That's at Winning Business Radio,

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and of course we're available in podcasts after the live

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show on all those platforms.

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You're familiar with YouTube.

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IHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, pretty much wherever you listen to your

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favorite podcasts. The mission of this show, Winning Business radio

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and TV, as regular viewers and listeners know, is to

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offer insights and advice to help people avoid the mistakes

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of others, right to learn best practices, the how tos,

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the what to's, the what not tos, to be challenged

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and to be hopefully inspired by the successes of others.

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Those are the consultants, coaches, advisors, authors, founders and owners, entrepreneurs,

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people with expertise. But you know, virtually every successful person

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I've ever had a chance to talk to has had

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some form of failure in their lives and careers. So

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while we all have to get get our knees skinned

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once in a while, I always say I'm driven to

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keep those scrapes from needing major surgery. Let's endeavor to

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learn from history so we don't repeat it. I've spent

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the better part of my career equipping businesses to grow

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from solopreneurs to small and medium sized companies all the

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way up to the fortune fifty. I've seen some of

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those companies win, and to varying great degrees, I've seen

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some fail I've had the opportunity to rub elbows with

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some of the highest performing people around and with some

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folks who probably should have found other professions. In my

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own businesses, I've had lots of success, but some failures too.

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I like to think I've learned a lot from those experiences.

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So every week I say this, you'll hear from me

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my opinions and insights, because anybody who knows me will

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tell you that I sometimes have a hard time being

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quiet Tim. But more importantly, together we'll hear from experts,

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those consultants, coaches, advisors, authors, founders and owners entrepreneurs today

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is an attorney. In fact, my guest is Tim Kannely,

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employment law attorney and shareholder of Fully and Fully PC.

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Here's his bio erani.

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Tim Knneely has practiced law since nineteen ninety four, first

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with the firm of Healy and Healy PC and with

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Folly and Folly PC since two thousand and eight. Tim's

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been a litigator his entire career. His practice involves the

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representation of clients in matters involving employment and labor law,

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data security and personal information protection, insurance contracts, and litigation attorney,

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Cannely has successfully resolved hundreds of cases in the state

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and federal courts. At the MCAD that's the Mass Mass

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Council against Discriminated YEA Hello, Mass Council Against Discrimination, at

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the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and before other

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administrative agencies. He's negotiated, draft and enforced a multiple of

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employment and business contracts for firm clients. Tim is a

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past president of the Tritown Chamber of Commerce in Mansfield.

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That's from twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen. He's currently a

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member of its Board of Directors. He was vice president

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of the Rotary Club of Foxborough in twenty sixteen and

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is a member of Excuse Me Form members, former member

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of the Economic Development Committee and of the Advisory Committee

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for the Town of Foxborough, Massachusetts. His affiliations include the

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US Supreme Court in two thousand and two, the United

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States District Court as of ninety five, and he's a

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member of the Mass Bars of ninety three, the Kentucky

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Bar as of twenty three, in the Pennsylvania State Bars

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of twenty fifteen. Tim earned his undergraduate degree at the

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College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Mass in nineteen

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ninety his law degree at the Suffolk University Law School, Boston,

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Mass in nineteen ninety three. Tim and his wife Kimberly,

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reside in Foxborough, Mass. They have a daughter, Shannon, who's nineteen,

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a son, Sullivan, who's eighteen. They have a dog named Tucker.

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Tim. Welcome to Winning Business Radio. Appreciate you being here.

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Thank you, Kevin. Glad to be here.

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So let's jump right in. Tell us a bit about

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your family. Start with the lovely Kimberly.

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Well, my wife is also a lawyer by trade, but

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does not wisely does not practice. He uh moved on

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to bigger and better things and works for Morgan Stanley.

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And I, as I mentioned, I have a daughter, Shannon,

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she's a sophomore at the University of Alabama.

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And uh, then win against Georgia, right.

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Very excited. Yes, she called us some elations, so it

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was it was a big night.

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My buddy from Georgia is not so he's a Tim also,

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he's not so happy right now?

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Yeah, win them all right? And then my son is

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a freshman at the University of New Hampshire.

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And what are they studying.

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My daughter is studying criminal psychology, she has an interest

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in joining the federal government in a law enforcement capacity.

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And my son is studying finance.

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Very good.

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And you have a dog named Tucker. Growing up, our

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our cocker spaniel was Tucker. So what kind of dog

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is Tucker.

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It's a Boston Terrier. I'm very active.

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That's very great. That's a cool break.

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All right.

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So tell us where you grew up.

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I grew up in Canton, Massachusetts.

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Uh.

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Yeah, we won't get into that. But Canton's in the

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news a lot lately. Dot dot dot. We won't get

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into that. Everybody in the country knows where Canton, Massachusetts

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is now.

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I know, yeah, I know.

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When I when I lived there, I thought it was nowhere,

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but I know it's become someplace.

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So tell us about that upbring. What was I like

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to grow up in Canton?

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So it was, you know, it's a small town. Primarily

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I went to private schools, so I didn't really go

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to the public schools in town. I ended up going

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to high school in Dorchester, Massachusetts, at Boston College High School,

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so I didn't get the full Canton experience. But you know,

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it was a nice place to live. People were friendly

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back then. I can't speak for it now. I haven't

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lived there and you know, thirty plus years, so it

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seems like it's become a different place than where I

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grew up.

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So we have one son, we have four of ours.

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We have four kids. All four went to private You've

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probably heard this before. All four went to private school.

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One of them went to Latin's Boston Latin School. I

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think you had a really more diverse upbringing. You saw more.

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You're maybe more street smart, more savvy, having gone to

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BC High in Dorchester, so I think you benefited from that,

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at least that's my guess. But at BC how you

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played football, ran track, and you're on the student council.

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Yes, yeah, I did, and it was a great choice.

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Originally didn't want to go there. It was kind of

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far from home and I didn't know very many people

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that were going there. But I'm really glad that I did.

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It was an exceptional school and I did get to

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meet a wide variety of people, learned how to travel

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on the train and you know, navigate the big city, right,

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So it was it was a great experience for me.

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I'm glad I did it.

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And when did you know or maybe I don't know.

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I won't even editorialized. You got a Bachelor's of Arts

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in English. So two questions, when did you know you

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wanted a major in English? And what made you choose

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holy Cross?

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Well? I had a cousin who was four years older

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than me who went to Holy Cross raved about it,

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and I just went out there and visited and really

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liked it. It was a beautiful campus with you know,

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fighting environment, and it was good academic school. I was

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fortunate to get in there, and you know, pretty much

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was my first choice coming out out of high school.

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Although x I should say I didn't want to go

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to Notre Dame but got waitlisted.

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So would you have been blackballed?

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I know that PC High is not really affiliated with

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Boston College, but would you have been blackballed because there's

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such a rivalry between Holy Cross and PC.

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Back then? Probably?

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Yeah. Yeah.

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My freshman year was the last time we played Boston

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College in a competitive football game.

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So that's yeah. I would say the word competitive is

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sadly true. Let's see, so you played all this is interesting.

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You played rugby, college club rugby and at Trimurial hockey.

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Tell us about those experiences at college.

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So I'd never heard of rugby before, and I went

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to my first rugby practice not knowing anything about it.

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I got invited by some friends who knew that I

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had played football in high school and I just fell

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in love with it. It was just a fun game

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with a lot of the athletic requirements that I had

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learned over the years about, you know, tackling and handling

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the ball, and it was very similar to football in

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that respect, and I just loved it. It was really

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a lot of fun and it was competitive. We had

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a really good team, and we got to travel the world.

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I went to Ireland, I went to England, I went

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to the Bahamas. I got to play, you know, in

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other parts of the country. It was great and really

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helped me to learn about other cultures that I probably

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wouldn't have learned about if I hadn't taken up the sport.

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And then just I still watch it on TV now.

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I love it.

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Someday you'll have to explain the rules to me. I know,

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I know, there's whatever. It's a little confusing if you

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don't know what you're doing and hockey you still play hockey.

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Right, Yeah, And I may have to hang it out.

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The hip is starting to really bother. Oh yeah, yeah,

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I've been playing hockey, uh for a long time.

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You know.

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I started skating at well five years old, and yeah,

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I got into intramurals and at holy Cross because I

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was working as the zamboni driver at the hockey rink.

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It's got to be the best job. I didn't know that.

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It was a great job. I really I really loved it,

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and you know, I was up there all the time,

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and I just figured, all right, well play some inner

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murals while I'm working in between shifts and things. And

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then I took over the program and I ran the

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intramural pro for two years. It was great, and then

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I just kept playing. I played in men's leagues after

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after college, right up until you know, in competitive games

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until about five six years ago. And now I just

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periodically skate with some friends. But I you know, I

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love it and I wish I could do more of it.

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But the body isn't cooperating as much as it used to.

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So we all know that story. So, Tim, when did

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you know you wanted to practice law and why did

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you choose Suffolk?

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Okay, Well, so at Boston College High School, I took

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a business law class and the teacher told me that

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I had an aptitude for the law, so that piqued

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my interest. My cousin that I told you about before

225
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that went the Holy Cross. He ended up going to

226
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law school and is a lawyer. Now, my uncle was

227
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a lawyer, my cousin is a lawyer, my other cousin's

228
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a lawyer, and so it just was part of the family,

229
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and so I just was introduced to it at an

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early age. And my dad really wanted to go to

231
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law school, but unfortunately I couldn't afford it and didn't go.

232
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Became a probation officer instead. So you know, it's something

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that I thought would make him proud of me, which

234
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I think it did, and I just wanted to do it,

235
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probably right out of high school. I took English in

236
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college because I wanted to be a good writer and

237
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articulate and thought that was a good choice for law school.

238
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And I chose Suffolk frankly because it was a local school.

239
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I knew I wanted to live and work around here,

240
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and it was less expensive than some of the other

241
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schools I got into that I was paying for it,

242
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you know, budget was a budget right, so.

243
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But also a very good school with a great reputation,

244
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good education.

245
00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:19.720
Yeah, and you know, it's become a really really great school.

246
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It was a good school when I was there, and

247
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I learned a lot and I got a lot of

248
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:30.759
good experience because they have really good internships and opportunities

249
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.440
like that. But it's grown. They built the new facility,

250
00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.320
they've got really high level professors. Now the reputation has

251
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gone way up, and that's something I'm really proud of.

252
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I'm glad I went there.

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Fantastic. Hey, we're going to take our first break right here.

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Tim will be back in about them and everybody else

255
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will be back in about one minute with Tim Foley.

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Tim Foley, Tim Kenney of Fully and Fully PC be

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right back.

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You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on

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W four cy Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

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Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up

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00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.480
And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene,

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presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in

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mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again

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us to Kevin Hallanett.

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We're back with Tim Kanneely, attorney at law who specializes

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in we'll get into this employment law among a few

277
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other things, but that's his primary focus shareholder and attorney

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at the firm of Fully and Fully Tim. Before we

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00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.440
get into the law, a couple of things to ask

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00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:31.480
and congratulate you about cum laude. You graduated cum laude

281
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.440
from Suffolk, but you were involved in two programs. I

282
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:36.799
want to ask about the Public Defender Program and you

283
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:40.440
got an American Jurisprudence Award. If you tell us about

284
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those two things.

285
00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:47.799
Sure. So. The Public Defender Program was a great experience

286
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:53.120
for me. That interest in being a litigator being in court,

287
00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:00.799
and that program allowed me to actually directly represent some

288
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:06.839
criminal defendants in court. There were lower level criminal events,

289
00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:10.839
but it was an opportunity to get into the courtroom,

290
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learn how to argue in front of a judge. I

291
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.279
got to try a case in front of the jury.

292
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You know, it was fun, And I knew I didn't

293
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.920
really want to do criminal law, but I really wanted

294
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that experience of being in the courtroom and understanding how

295
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to present in front of a judge and a jury.

296
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And that gave me that opportunity. So I was proud

297
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.799
of that and glad that I had that opportunity. The

298
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:46.039
Jurisprudence Award basically just got the highest grade and property

299
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:51.000
of the other students in my in my grade levels.

300
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.200
So that's that's how I.

301
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.720
Got that perfect Nothing wrong with that, all right. So

302
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:59.400
summarizing Suffolk, this is a this is a I mean,

303
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:01.519
this might be easier. You might think about it for

304
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.200
a second. What would you arguably say is your most

305
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.759
important lesson learned from law school.

306
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:18.880
Being analytical. It's a general answer right now, But being

307
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.759
able to look at a situation, break it down into

308
00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:27.799
its component parts, and sort of analyze a path forward

309
00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:32.920
is I think an important skill for attorneys, and I've

310
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:38.359
used it now for thirty years, and so I'd say

311
00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:42.759
that that ability to break down a problem into its

312
00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:46.960
component parts and sort of analyze a path to the

313
00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:50.480
end result that the client wants. Is probably a strength

314
00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.680
of mine and one that I believe I developed that

315
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:54.559
Suffolk Law school.

316
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:57.680
That's actually a good answer. All right, let me get

317
00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.200
into your employment history a little bit. It's I would argue,

318
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:05.200
it's commendable only because and a bit unusual thirty four

319
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.559
years and only three firms.

320
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.000
The first one was just a short time.

321
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.319
But I think that's that's a testament to you first

322
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.240
as a law clerk then later attorney at Johnson me

323
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.799
and may just tell us a little bit about that work,

324
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.200
and then I'll ask a similar question, what's your lesson

325
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.880
learned or you know, key takeaway from that first experience.

326
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.720
Sure, so that was the That was an internship initially

327
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.880
that I had in law school. It was paid, it

328
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:37.640
was great. They were a high profile criminal defense firm,

329
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:45.880
and I got to do a lot of pleadings and investigation,

330
00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:49.759
and there was some court time where I sat with

331
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.799
the lawyers and got to get a little bit experienced there.

332
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.440
And then I stayed on only for a few months,

333
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:02.039
as after I got sworn into the bar, they were

334
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.519
kind enough to let me stick around while I was

335
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:10.680
looking for a permanent job, and again I knew I

336
00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:13.119
didn't really want to do criminal law. But it was

337
00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:19.720
a great experience as far as courtroom learning, how to

338
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:25.799
argue cases and argue issues and research and present motions

339
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:26.279
and things.

340
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:31.119
So excellent. You do a fair amount of criminal case Yeah, hello,

341
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.920
court room work, now right, I do?

342
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:34.839
Yeah, So that.

343
00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:41.400
Has much as I can doesn't happen. There's not as

344
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:42.799
many trials anymore, is there.

345
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.960
So is that in general? Would you say?

346
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.839
Or it did COVID affect that it's in general it's

347
00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:56.400
a situation where the courts are overwhelmed, I believe with

348
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:02.839
cases and so ninety five us percent settle. The ones

349
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:10.240
that don't settle are typically you know, large malpractice cases

350
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.000
and things of that nature that they get get court time.

351
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.200
It's hard to get in and in front of a

352
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.799
jury these days, so you know, when you do, it's

353
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:25.079
it's a For someone like myself, it's a it's a

354
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:26.400
it's a nice experience.

355
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:28.240
All right.

356
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.079
You were at Helly and Healy for fourteen years. Tell

357
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:32.079
us about that work.

358
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:40.519
So that firm focused on insurance defense, which is basically

359
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:45.240
we had relationships with the number of insurance companies and

360
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:51.319
they hired us to defend their insurance. So I handled

361
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:56.200
all different kinds of cases, slip and fall cases, car accidents,

362
00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:02.799
uh fires, any kind of casualty case that you can

363
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.279
think of that people present a claim to their insurance

364
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:11.960
company or they sue someone for personal injury. So I

365
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.880
was defending a lot of those cases that you know,

366
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:20.359
you you see companies advertising, you see law firms advertising

367
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:23.519
on TV about personal injury. I was defending cases against

368
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.880
those firms for about fourteen years.

369
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.640
And a similar question key takeaway or you know some

370
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.279
lesson lesson or lessons that you learn that you still

371
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.920
refer to from heally and heally from that experience.

372
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:44.200
Yes, So in that world there's a lot more trial time,

373
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.759
or at least there was back when I was younger.

374
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:53.279
So I got into court a lot and got to

375
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:57.799
do a lot of motion practice and arguing in front

376
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.519
of the juries and judges and I try to cases

377
00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:05.559
and it was great experience in that respect, also learned

378
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:09.359
a lot about a lot of different kinds of law.

379
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:15.039
When you're doing insurance defense work, you're handling a myriad

380
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:19.240
of cases in all kinds of areas, representing all kinds

381
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:25.119
of different companies and people, and so I got a

382
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.160
sense for all the different kinds of things that were

383
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.279
out there and what I liked and what I didn't like.

384
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:32.359
And fortunately, one of the things I really liked was

385
00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:39.839
representing businesses and helping them with employee issues and contracts

386
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.359
and disputes related to those issues. And that sort of

387
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:48.400
transitioned me into my current.

388
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.720
Position, which is a good segue.

389
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:55.319
So you joined fully and fully. I didn't write the

390
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:00.400
date down a number of years ago. Twenty twelve, was it?

391
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.160
It was March of twenty Oh wait.

392
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:05.799
Oh wait, sorry about that, I got that wrong. Okay,

393
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:09.240
So what was behind decision? That decision? It sounds like

394
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.920
it was the type of law. But what was behind

395
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.720
that decision to leave Healing and Heally and join fully

396
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:15.160
and fully?

397
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:21.240
Well, so, you know, unfortunately at Healing and Heally was

398
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.880
having some struggles at the time. It was sort of

399
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:29.240
a power struggle, and who looked to me like it

400
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:34.400
wasn't long for existence. And I had been there a

401
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:39.640
long time and I had two young children, so I

402
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.799
was I was a little nervous, and I just started

403
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:47.519
looking around and fortunately for me, you know, the folks

404
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:54.240
that fully and fully needed a litigator and they had

405
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:57.920
hired recently another attorney from my firm at Healing Healey,

406
00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:05.279
who recommended me, and I got the job. So it

407
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.720
was great. It was good timing. I got to leave

408
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:11.359
a firm that I really liked heally and Heally, but

409
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.200
I saw the writing on the wall and needed to

410
00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.359
get out before it sort of fell apart, which it

411
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:23.720
ultimately did and ended up at fully and fully and

412
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.279
been there for long, you know, fifteen years now.

413
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:31.279
It's been great. I was just gonna ask a quer. Oh,

414
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:35.000
So the work that you do now is really summarize

415
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:39.119
it's employment law employer side. Everyone probably asks you that

416
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:44.119
you're representing the employer, not the employee primarily, and they're often,

417
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:46.599
if not always, business owners, right.

418
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:53.720
Right. Well, I mean, we do some insurance work because

419
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.559
our clients sometimes have insurance, so we work with the

420
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.720
insurance companies as well, but primarily we are working on

421
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.440
behalf of the business owner. We deal a lot with

422
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:11.039
their human resource officers if they have them, but it's

423
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:17.160
primarily working with businesses to help them navigate the various

424
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:22.480
laws that apply to their relationship with their employees. And

425
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.480
we do that across the United States. We have clients

426
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.720
in many states, and we have licensed attorneys in many states,

427
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:35.559
and it's really quite challenging and fun because we have

428
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.559
to know the laws at the federal level, state level,

429
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:39.960
and the local level.

430
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.119
I was going to ask about that, then there could

431
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:43.599
be overlaps in the same case.

432
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:45.839
That is correct.

433
00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:48.440
Yeah, yeah, there are two parts of the law I

434
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.519
want to get into before we're done. But it seemed

435
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:52.759
to me like there were layers there as well. How

436
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:55.400
do you differentiate, for someone that doesn't know the law

437
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.319
a listener or a viewer, between employment law and labor law.

438
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:07.839
So labor law deals with the union world. It's it's

439
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:13.240
the National Labor Relations Act is the primary law governing

440
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.240
labor law, and the National Labor Relations Board is the

441
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:25.039
primary administrative agency that handles that Act. But in the

442
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:31.119
lower level, it's companies that are unionized have collective bargaining agreements,

443
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:34.880
and those agreements governing the relationship between the employer and

444
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.359
the employees and their unions.

445
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:40.720
So that's laid wages and benefits and hours and all kinds.

446
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.119
Of things right right.

447
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.920
And then employment law it is typically while there's some overlap,

448
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:53.319
typically it's dealing with private employers who are not unionized,

449
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.680
who must adhere to the state, the local, state, and

450
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:02.160
federal laws that govern their employment relationships.

451
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:04.480
All right, quick question, just an opinion here, And this

452
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.359
was only because it came up I saw on the

453
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:13.039
news or I read something where oh, the port workers

454
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.920
from like New England to I don't know as far

455
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:17.799
down as I don't know Florida or I don't know where,

456
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:20.519
but all kinds of red on the map right that

457
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:21.200
they were showing.

458
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:22.519
And one of.

459
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:28.440
The assertions that the union is making is they don't

460
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:34.559
want any technology or like cranes or anything mechanized. What

461
00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:36.680
do you think of that? Is that more of a

462
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.079
positioning statement than what they actually want?

463
00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:41.519
Do you think or what are your thoughts?

464
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:48.480
Well, I mean, the union's job is to represent the

465
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:55.519
workers and ensure as many people are employed as possible

466
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.319
in the workplace. Right, so if you if you mechanize,

467
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.559
I obviously going to cut jobs, and so the union

468
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:10.279
has to push to prevent the loss of jobs. Now,

469
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.680
whether it's a bargaining tool is a different issue, but

470
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:20.559
they don't I'm sure want there'd be any loss of jobs,

471
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:25.720
so I'm sure they're using it to bargain a bit.

472
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:28.319
But I'm also sure that they are fully vested in

473
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:33.519
trying to find a world where you know, you can

474
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:35.240
mechanize but not cut jobs.

475
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:36.720
Yeah, I mean just saying.

476
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.279
When I read that, it just seemed maybe I didn't

477
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:40.119
understand it completely, but it just seemed, how do you

478
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.799
get rid of cranes at a port? You're going to

479
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.279
get one hundred guys to lift up a can?

480
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:45.480
You know?

481
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:47.039
I don't know. It just struck me.

482
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.799
All right, let's take another break, our second break right here.

483
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:53.039
We'll be back everybody in just about a minute with

484
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:55.119
Tim Kennilly of Fully and Fully Long.

485
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.960
You're listen new to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene

486
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:07.519
on W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

487
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.359
Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up

488
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:12.759
right here on Winning Business Radio.

489
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.119
The yp dot com website is your local search engine.

490
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If you're looking for a good restaurant, it can help

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496
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499
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download the app to search local, find local, and save local.

500
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.160
And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene

501
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.039
presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in

502
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.680
mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again

503
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:01.000
is Kevin Helenett.

504
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:12.319
All right, we're back with Tim Kennely Folly and Folly Law.

505
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.759
Tim a couple of other areas are contracts. Is that

506
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:17.799
in the normal course of business, like we're viewing or

507
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:23.920
preparing contracts for vendors, sellers, et cetera.

508
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.640
So most of the contracts that we do are employment related,

509
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:32.759
not all of them, but most of them. I mean

510
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:42.240
it's employment agreements, shareholder agreements, partnership agreements, so it typically

511
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:46.440
has to do with either the employment relationship or the

512
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:53.400
owner's relationship with one another. And we do things like

513
00:31:53.519 --> 00:32:00.839
non competition agreements and confidentiality agreements NDA's and the like.

514
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.720
So it's mostly employment related contracts or business contracts for

515
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:07.839
the business itself.

516
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:10.880
Okay, and then of course litigation won a problem with curst.

517
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:16.759
Right. We will typically litigate to back up any contract

518
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.400
that we create, but also if the clients have a

519
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:23.079
contract dispute, we will represent them in that.

520
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:24.680
Yes, all right.

521
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.880
You also, I saw you had the firms training division

522
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.119
Affirmative Action and hip A compliance practices. You want to

523
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:32.359
touch on those for just a moment.

524
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:39.559
Sure, So we do a lot of training for employers.

525
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:46.160
We train their staff on anything from sexual harassment prevention,

526
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:54.680
we train HR folks and hiring practices. We train on

527
00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:01.839
ocean compliance. We train on pretty much anything that has

528
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:06.839
to do with managing the staff. So we do manager training,

529
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:17.720
investigation training, we do you know, trainings that allow people

530
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:23.319
to you know, pay wages properly. So so anything really

531
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:25.680
that has to do with the workplace we can give

532
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:29.880
a training to whoever the employees are that that need

533
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:33.720
that education. I apologize, What were the.

534
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:37.359
Other Affirmative action and HIPPO similar right?

535
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.519
Yeah, So HIPNA has to do with obviously compliance with

536
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:49.240
the confidentiality of medical records. There's a lot of confusion

537
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.759
about what, where and when HIPPER applies. So we give

538
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:56.519
education to HR folks about that because a lot of

539
00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:01.759
times medical information comes in to the workplace for leave

540
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:10.000
or accommodation matters, right, And there's some confusion about when

541
00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:12.679
and if hip or applies to those scenarios. So we

542
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:18.840
give them an understanding of that. Affirmtive action is it

543
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:21.679
only applies to certain businesses and certain sizes, and we

544
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:27.679
create furtive action programs for those clients as needed, and

545
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:32.079
we try to explain to them the appropriate hiring practices

546
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.559
that they need to implement in order to ensure that

547
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:41.280
they are striving for a diverse work environment consistent with

548
00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:42.320
a furtive action.

549
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:44.760
So give us a thumbnail on that, and then I've

550
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:48.280
got some other questions not relative to that, but affirmative action,

551
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:52.599
is it hiring from the proper or diverse pool or

552
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:54.800
is it diverse hires or I mean, what does that

553
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:55.599
really look like?

554
00:34:57.880 --> 00:34:59.679
Sure, so a lot of people think that they're a

555
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:01.960
quote is that when you have a front of action,

556
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.719
But there there's no quotas. What it is is, it's

557
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:10.599
it's a it's a goal to endeavor to hire more

558
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:16.039
diverse workforce. So you look at your existing workforce, you

559
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:22.159
measure it against the available workers in your hiring area,

560
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:26.440
and you determine whether or not you are at or

561
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:31.800
below or perhaps even above the available numbers in the

562
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:37.599
different categories of race, gender, You know, and you and

563
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.599
you basically try to then if you are low in

564
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:47.079
a category, if you don't have enough female employees perhaps

565
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:52.400
or enough disabled workers, perhaps, you then try to implement

566
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.199
strategies for the upcoming year that will enable you to

567
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:02.079
find those workers and attract more those workers. So the

568
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.679
goal of a furtive action is to constantly try to

569
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:13.880
implement new methods of attracting a more diverse workforce and ultimately,

570
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:19.639
you know, get people hired into a more diverse work

571
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:20.400
work environment.

572
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.239
All right, what is the size? And maybe this is

573
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.400
an unfair question, you can answer any way you want.

574
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:28.239
The size of a typical client, It sounds like you

575
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:31.960
work with some smaller clients, but also some larger.

576
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:34.880
So we work with pretty much anybody that has employees.

577
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.559
So as you can imagine, it's we have some clients

578
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.719
that have two or three employees, and then we have

579
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:45.400
clients that have thousands of employees. And you know, the

580
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:51.400
laws vary by size at times. But you know, there

581
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:58.039
are very similar issues across all levels of employment with

582
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.559
you know, face issues of wage and hour violations and

583
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:08.239
discrimination and harassment, things of that nature apply it very

584
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:12.360
small businesses much like they apply at very large businesses.

585
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:15.480
But then you know, as you grow and companies, you

586
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:18.840
get covered by more and more laws. So if you

587
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:21.320
have fifty or more employees, for example, you have to

588
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:27.800
adhere to the FMLA Family Medical Leave Act, to federal law.

589
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:33.920
And you know, just knowing what laws apply to your

590
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.920
business is difficult task for some employees, especially multi jurisdictional employers.

591
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:46.320
So that's what we try to provide, an understanding of

592
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.639
what laws apply to your business and how can you

593
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:52.360
comply and how do you avoid the risk of violating.

594
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.559
So for multi jurisdictional does it matter more where the

595
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.360
employer is or where the employee is or is it

596
00:37:58.440 --> 00:37:59.079
not that simple?

597
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:03.440
Well, it's typically where the employee is. And so it's

598
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:10.079
become more interesting with remote workers, right, I mean, you know,

599
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:15.079
COVID brought about a rise in remote workers. So business

600
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:21.480
it has one employee working in Wyoming remotely is now

601
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:24.800
a Wyoming employer, you know, and so you know they

602
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:30.000
have to understand what Wyoming laws govern that relationship.

603
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.519
I did not realize that that's a that's a big ripple.

604
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.719
That's why I have a job, that's right, keep it up,

605
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.119
keep it up. We like lots of problems. Yeah, and

606
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:41.920
I can all right, I do want you to get

607
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:43.639
into two areas and we have we have plenty of

608
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:45.960
time to dig into these. Uh, you know, we have

609
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:49.519
a good ten minutes here. So attendance management and leave laws,

610
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:52.039
particularly in mass but you know, I know, I know

611
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:54.320
that's where you and I are, and we're at least

612
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.519
a fair share of of our listeners and viewers are.

613
00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:59.639
But talk about kind of the things people got to

614
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.599
watch out before. I know you give this presentation, but

615
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:06.440
you're also an expert. What do companies need to guard

616
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.639
themselves against with regard to attendance management and leave laws?

617
00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:18.920
Sure, so a lot of these laws overlap. So you know,

618
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:23.239
again you have FMLA, which is a federal law that

619
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:29.159
can apply in let's use Massachusetts an example in Massachusetts.

620
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:33.000
But then Massachusetts also has paid Family Medical Leave, which

621
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:37.880
is an FMLA type state law. And so you have

622
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:41.440
to understand how those two work together, and you can

623
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:46.079
run those two leaves and currently, and you have to

624
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.800
understand how you do that and when you do that

625
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.960
because you want you don't want to have a situation

626
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:57.159
where the worker takes twenty weeks of paid family medical

627
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:01.159
leave and then stacks another twelve weeks of FMLA on

628
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:03.400
the back end of that, and it's out for thirty two

629
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:07.320
protected weeks of time. So you want to have those

630
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:10.400
two leaves run together, and then the maximum leave would

631
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.239
be twenty weeks. So we try to explain how that

632
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:20.119
works to clients. But then in addition, there are protections

633
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:24.000
for workers in all these leave laws. And again I'll

634
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.880
give you the example of Massachusetts that paid family medical

635
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:31.000
leave law has built into it a six month window

636
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:37.039
after the leave in which it is presumed retaliation if

637
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.760
you take adverse employment action against that worker who's taken

638
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:42.039
a paid family medical lead.

639
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:45.280
Now, so it doesn't mean there can't be averse action

640
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.719
against the employee. It just means go ahead.

641
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:51.719
It just means you have to have good evidence of

642
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:56.199
a non leave related, non paid family medical leave related

643
00:40:57.119 --> 00:40:58.920
reason for the adverse action.

644
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:01.800
And you know, so.

645
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:05.199
Employers have to document well that a lot of times

646
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:08.960
it's a performance issue that they're trying to discipline for

647
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:13.679
and they you know, they have to have good records

648
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:18.400
of poor performance or you can't robut the presumption of

649
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.840
retaliation for that leave, you.

650
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:23.679
Know, I'm not a lawyer, but I tell people all

651
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:26.639
the time, uh, document, document, document, because I'm around a

652
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:29.199
lot of you know, in my my case sales organizations.

653
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:30.960
But you know there are people coming and going all

654
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.920
the time, and some for performance. I was telling them, Hey,

655
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.239
I don't know, check with your attorney, but you document everything.

656
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:37.239
I can tell you that for sure.

657
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:39.199
Yeah.

658
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.199
It's it's soft and sad, and I think it's true.

659
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.559
It's if it's not documented, it didn't happen.

660
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.480
Yeah. Yeah, Uh.

661
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.719
And people can get paid leave for various reasons. My

662
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:56.280
son and his and his wife benefited greatly from when

663
00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:57.199
their too goods are born.

664
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:59.960
We never had that. Uh you know.

665
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:02.599
I worked from my father in law and he basically said,

666
00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:07.199
all right, kids born, back to work, right.

667
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:11.159
Yeah. Well, I can remember some sleepless nights wondering how

668
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:13.440
I was going to stay awake at work.

669
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:15.320
And yeah, you know.

670
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:18.280
So paid family medical leave and other paid leaves in

671
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.360
other states are very similar these days, and it's become

672
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:26.119
a wider trend. And you can take bonding leave after

673
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.719
the child's bonn typically if you take the leave within

674
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:34.039
the first twelve months following the birth, which you know,

675
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.199
it's a great benefit, and I think it's a great

676
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:42.960
opportunity for parents to bond with their child, But it

677
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:47.559
does take a toll on the business, And yeah, navigating

678
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:53.639
those leaves is at times difficult for HR people. So

679
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:55.559
we have a lot of the business.

680
00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:58.559
Right, the smaller business, the smaller the business, the more

681
00:42:59.119 --> 00:42:59.960
impactful I'm at.

682
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:06.400
Yeah, especially if you don't have you can't replace the

683
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.599
person because they've taken a protected leave, So it is difficult.

684
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:13.239
Sometimes you have to hire a temporary worker or other

685
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:17.079
people have to pick up the slack. But yeah, it's

686
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.880
I think the most difficult part of an HR job

687
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:23.920
is managing leave.

688
00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:27.519
It'd be HR would be an easy job if it

689
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:29.000
wasn't for the employees.

690
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:31.320
Right, I believe that would be true.

691
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.119
Running a business wouldn't be so complicated it wasn't for

692
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:39.440
the customers. Yeah, so that people can qualify for various

693
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:45.400
reasons health issues in addition to having kids. What are

694
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:48.679
some of the other areas that might that employers want

695
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:49.639
to be aware of.

696
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:57.079
So military leave is a big one, or military related

697
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:00.719
injuries is a big one. So you know, obviously we

698
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:06.079
want to support our our wounded warriors and our military personnel.

699
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.920
So it's important to understand their rights. There's a federal

700
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.440
law called You Sarah that also comes into play, so

701
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:18.159
that's a big one. Then you have the Americans with

702
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:22.400
Disability Act, which is a law that protects people with

703
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:27.599
a disability and affords them the right to a reasonable

704
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.519
accommodation for their disability that will enable them to perform

705
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:35.000
the essential functions of their job. And that's a tricky

706
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:38.199
one and employers can sometimes run to follow that one

707
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.239
without any intention whatsoever. So we have a lot of

708
00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:48.880
inquiries from clients about eighty eight compliance and accommodation obligations

709
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:53.519
and what's an undue hardship. You know, the employer can

710
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.719
decline in accommodation if it's an undue hardship, but it's

711
00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:02.320
very specific standard there that employers have to know and

712
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:06.559
understand and meet if they want to challenge an accommodation

713
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:10.199
on the basis want to do hardships. So we spend

714
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:12.159
a lot of time talking to the clients about those

715
00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:16.719
issues and trying to navigate those lead laws to help

716
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:20.119
them to avoid claims and disputes with their staff.

717
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:23.360
All right, let's shift gears a little to the pay

718
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.920
pay transparency laws give us an overview and you'll probably

719
00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:27.840
have some questions there.

720
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:33.880
Sure. So, So Massachusetts, like a number of other states

721
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:39.400
across the country, has elected to adopt pay transparency, and

722
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:43.239
we're going to have a similar law here in Massachusetts

723
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.719
to other states like California and Colorado and the like.

724
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:56.920
But basically, what pay transparency is is an effort to

725
00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:01.679
disclose what jobs, the pay rate of jobs. And then

726
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:05.039
and the mindset behind it is is pay equity. It's

727
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:11.400
it's the idea that we need to ensure that women

728
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:17.559
and minorities are paid on the same level as Caucasian males,

729
00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:27.440
and that that still remains statistically unequal, right, it's just

730
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:30.960
the reality, and so that these laws have been implemented

731
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:36.159
to try to diminish the disparity that exists. And the

732
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.119
and the and the thought process is that if you

733
00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:46.199
disclose what a job pays, and you you know, lay

734
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.880
it out on the table, that that people will eventually

735
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:56.199
all earn equal pay for equal work. So the pay

736
00:46:56.239 --> 00:47:01.639
transparency law that Masschus is adopting require any job posting

737
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:07.840
to include the salary range or the hourly rate range

738
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.880
for that position. Employers will also be required to, on

739
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:16.920
request from an existing employee, explain it and give them

740
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:20.559
the pay range for their job. If there's a new

741
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:24.800
job that they want to aspire to or get promoted to,

742
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:27.440
they can get the pay range for that job.

743
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:31.000
So when you say range, there's still some negotiation. There

744
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:33.280
is just in fact a range.

745
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:38.159
The employer can put out what they pay from the

746
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:43.800
lowest level to the highest level of that position. And

747
00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:47.280
obviously you know that takes into account the fact that

748
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:49.920
some people in the position will have been there longer,

749
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:55.599
will have more experience, perhaps be bringing more to the table,

750
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:58.159
and therefore they get paid a little bit more than

751
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:01.239
people on the lower end that have experience, haven't been

752
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:03.760
there as long, or maybe aren't bringing us much to

753
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:10.559
the table. But they they want the employer to layout that.

754
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:15.840
That imagine that's difficult for those difficult to justify maybe

755
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:19.000
document those differences, right as you say, bringing more to

756
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:22.719
the table, bringing less longer in the position less long.

757
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:28.039
Yeah, Well, I think it's critical that the employers have

758
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:35.960
a pay range that they can support and document. So

759
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:40.920
while it is potentially difficult, I do want to have

760
00:48:41.079 --> 00:48:45.079
backup for well, why they pay this low on one

761
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.840
end and on the other end, because it could be

762
00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:53.360
challenged on it. And again, pay equity requires you to pay,

763
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:59.920
at that fundamental level, equal pay for equal work. So

764
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.800
if you're going to pay somebody doing the same job

765
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:05.800
as another at a different level, you have to be

766
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:09.480
able to justify the difference. And it obviously can't be

767
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:12.639
based on gender or race, so you have to show

768
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:18.360
that it's based on certain other factors that are business related.

769
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:21.639
What we got to wrap this up, but it sounds

770
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:26.119
like there's there's more what's the word that more justification

771
00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:27.800
for even some of the training you do to make

772
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:30.840
sure that people are doing this correctly, to provide resources

773
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:34.280
and training and not just protection when it happens, but

774
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:38.639
preparation to avoid it from happening happening, right.

775
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.039
And we've got an audit service that we do. We

776
00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:44.440
audit people's payroll practices and try to give them recommendations

777
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:48.760
for how to pay with consistent with the laws that apply.

778
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:53.000
So it is it is something that we train them on.

779
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:55.079
It is something that we audit and help them to

780
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:59.039
put in place. So because it is difficult and how

781
00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:01.880
many claims can be expensive if you do get sued

782
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:02.800
for these kind of things.

783
00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:06.559
All right, last two questions both very quick. Who in

784
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.400
the listening and viewing audiences should reach out to you

785
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:10.400
and why?

786
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:16.239
Well, So, anyone that owns a business and has employees

787
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:23.960
is a potential client of them. And they have HR,

788
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:27.159
that's fine. If they don't have HR, that's fine. We

789
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:31.639
work with We work with companies that have no HR,

790
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:34.639
companies that have HR, companies have in a house counsel.

791
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:38.239
We work with all differents and all different kinds because

792
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:44.679
our specialty is employment law and there's constant evolution under

793
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:47.440
the law, and we stay on top of it so

794
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:51.280
the clients don't have to So anybody that's worried about

795
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:55.480
compliance with the various laws and the changing laws and

796
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:57.280
that has employees.

797
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.679
We can help them excellent. And last question is simple.

798
00:51:01.719 --> 00:51:04.519
There's information that's going across the crawl for everybody. Best

799
00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:06.760
way for people to reach you is email or phone?

800
00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:11.280
What would you prefer, I mean, hie way email. You know,

801
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:16.760
obviously email is the current preferred method of communication, so

802
00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:21.480
email would be fine. But if people prefer or pick

803
00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:23.239
up the phone and give me a call, I welcome it.

804
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:25.400
I enjoy talking to people on phone.

805
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:29.079
So sounds good. Sounds good, well, tim, Thank you very much,

806
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:31.719
I know you're busy. Appreciate you taking the time and

807
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:32.199
being here.

808
00:51:33.079 --> 00:51:35.159
It's been fun. Kevin, Thank you for having me. I

809
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:36.039
really appreciate it.

810
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:40.000
My pleasure, my pleasure, and thanks everybody for watching and listening.

811
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:42.039
As most of you know, this is your show about

812
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.480
business and often business challenges. If you've got concerns about

813
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:47.719
the growth of your company, feel free to reach out

814
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:49.840
to me. You can find me on Facebook or LinkedIn

815
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.719
and that's at Winning Business Radio. You can drop me

816
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:55.360
a note one of my many email addresses Kevin at

817
00:51:55.360 --> 00:51:58.960
Winning Business Radio dot com. Our company is Winning Incorporated,

818
00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:02.639
part of Sandler Training. We develop sales teams into high

819
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:07.000
achievers and sales leaders into true coaches and mentors. We're

820
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:09.000
not a fit for everybody, but hey, maybe we should

821
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:11.960
have a conversation. Thank you once again to producer and

822
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:14.320
engineer one. Thank you one for another job well done.

823
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:18.760
Be sure to join us again next week for that's

824
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.360
in Monday, October seventh. My guest will be Evan Poland,

825
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:25.480
president of business development provider Poland Performance Group. Until then,

826
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:26.800
this is Kevin Helenan.

827
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:31.119
You've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host,

828
00:52:31.239 --> 00:52:34.280
Kevin Helena. If you missed any part of this episode.

829
00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:38.559
The podcast is available on Talk for Podcasting and iHeartRadio.

830
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:42.719
For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio

831
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:45.920
dot com or check us out on social media. Tune

832
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:48.000
in again next week and every Monday at four pm

833
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.599
Eastern Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on

834
00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:56.039
W four CY Radio w fourcy dot com. Until then,

835
00:52:56.440 --> 00:52:59.960
let's succeed where others have failed and win in business

836
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:03.920
with Kevin Helenan and Winnie Business Radio