Tim Kenneally, Employment Law Expert and Shareholder of Foley & Foley, PC

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W four CY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Kevin helen n believes that certainly applies to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com and now your host, Kevin Helena.

0:52 Thanks everybody for joining in again today. I am Kevin Hallanan and welcome back to Winning Business TV and Radio on w FI or CWY dot com. We're streaming live on talkfor TV dot com. That's the number four, in addition to being on Facebook Live. That's at Winning Business Radio, and of course we're available in podcasts after the live show on all those platforms. You're familiar with YouTube. IHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, pretty much wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. The mission of this show, Winning Business radio and TV, as regular viewers and listeners know, is to offer insights and advice to help people avoid the mistakes of others, right to learn best practices, the how tos, the what to's, the what not tos, to be challenged and to be hopefully inspired by the successes of others.

1:42 Those are the consultants, coaches, advisors, authors, founders and owners, entrepreneurs, people with expertise. But you know, virtually every successful person I've ever had a chance to talk to has had some form of failure in their lives and careers. So while we all have to get get our knees skinned once in a while, I always say I'm driven to keep those scrapes from needing major surgery. Let's endeavor to learn from history so we don't repeat it. I've spent the better part of my career equipping businesses to grow from solopreneurs to small and medium sized companies all the way up to the fortune fifty. I've seen some of those companies win, and to varying great degrees, I've seen some fail I've had the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the highest performing people around and with some folks who probably should have found other professions. In my own businesses, I've had lots of success, but some failures too.

2:31 I like to think I've learned a lot from those experiences. So every week I say this, you'll hear from me my opinions and insights, because anybody who knows me will tell you that I sometimes have a hard time being quiet Tim. But more importantly, together we'll hear from experts, those consultants, coaches, advisors, authors, founders and owners entrepreneurs today is an attorney. In fact, my guest is Tim Kannely, employment law attorney and shareholder of Fully and Fully PC. Here's his bio erani. Tim Knneely has practiced law since nineteen ninety four, first with the firm of Healy and Healy PC and with Folly and Folly PC since two thousand and eight. Tim's been a litigator his entire career. His practice involves the representation of clients in matters involving employment and labor law, data security and personal information protection, insurance contracts, and litigation attorney, Cannely has successfully resolved hundreds of cases in the state and federal courts. At the MCAD that's the Mass Mass Council against Discriminated YEA Hello, Mass Council Against Discrimination, at the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and before other administrative agencies. He's negotiated, draft and enforced a multiple of employment and business contracts for firm clients. Tim is a past president of the Tritown Chamber of Commerce in Mansfield.

3:49 That's from twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen. He's currently a member of its Board of Directors. He was vice president of the Rotary Club of Foxborough in twenty sixteen and is a member of Excuse Me Form members, former member of the Economic Development Committee and of the Advisory Committee for the Town of Foxborough, Massachusetts. His affiliations include the US Supreme Court in two thousand and two, the United States District Court as of ninety five, and he's a member of the Mass Bars of ninety three, the Kentucky Bar as of twenty three, in the Pennsylvania State Bars of twenty fifteen. Tim earned his undergraduate degree at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Mass in nineteen ninety his law degree at the Suffolk University Law School, Boston, Mass in nineteen ninety three. Tim and his wife Kimberly, reside in Foxborough, Mass. They have a daughter, Shannon, who's nineteen, a son, Sullivan, who's eighteen. They have a dog named Tucker.

4:39 Tim. Welcome to Winning Business Radio. Appreciate you being here. Thank you, Kevin. Glad to be here. So let's jump right in. Tell us a bit about your family. Start with the lovely Kimberly. Well, my wife is also a lawyer by trade, but does not wisely does not practice. He uh moved on to bigger and better things and works for Morgan Stanley. And I, as I mentioned, I have a daughter, Shannon, she's a sophomore at the University of Alabama. And uh, then win against Georgia, right.

5:20 Very excited. Yes, she called us some elations, so it was it was a big night. My buddy from Georgia is not so he's a Tim also, he's not so happy right now? Yeah, win them all right? And then my son is a freshman at the University of New Hampshire. And what are they studying. My daughter is studying criminal psychology, she has an interest in joining the federal government in a law enforcement capacity. And my son is studying finance.

6:01 Very good. And you have a dog named Tucker. Growing up, our our cocker spaniel was Tucker. So what kind of dog is Tucker. It's a Boston Terrier. I'm very active. That's very great. That's a cool break. All right. So tell us where you grew up. I grew up in Canton, Massachusetts. Uh. Yeah, we won't get into that. But Canton's in the news a lot lately. Dot dot dot. We won't get into that. Everybody in the country knows where Canton, Massachusetts is now. I know, yeah, I know. When I when I lived there, I thought it was nowhere, but I know it's become someplace. So tell us about that upbring. What was I like to grow up in Canton?

6:44 So it was, you know, it's a small town. Primarily I went to private schools, so I didn't really go to the public schools in town. I ended up going to high school in Dorchester, Massachusetts, at Boston College High School, so I didn't get the full Canton experience. But you know, it was a nice place to live. People were friendly back then. I can't speak for it now. I haven't lived there and you know, thirty plus years, so it seems like it's become a different place than where I grew up. So we have one son, we have four of ours.

7:25 We have four kids. All four went to private You've probably heard this before. All four went to private school. One of them went to Latin's Boston Latin School. I think you had a really more diverse upbringing. You saw more. You're maybe more street smart, more savvy, having gone to BC High in Dorchester, so I think you benefited from that, at least that's my guess. But at BC how you played football, ran track, and you're on the student council. Yes, yeah, I did, and it was a great choice. Originally didn't want to go there. It was kind of far from home and I didn't know very many people that were going there. But I'm really glad that I did. It was an exceptional school and I did get to meet a wide variety of people, learned how to travel on the train and you know, navigate the big city, right, So it was it was a great experience for me.

8:20 I'm glad I did it. And when did you know or maybe I don't know. I won't even editorialized. You got a Bachelor's of Arts in English. So two questions, when did you know you wanted a major in English? And what made you choose holy Cross? Well? I had a cousin who was four years older than me who went to Holy Cross raved about it, and I just went out there and visited and really liked it. It was a beautiful campus with you know, fighting environment, and it was good academic school. I was fortunate to get in there, and you know, pretty much was my first choice coming out out of high school.

9:16 Although x I should say I didn't want to go to Notre Dame but got waitlisted. So would you have been blackballed? I know that PC High is not really affiliated with Boston College, but would you have been blackballed because there's such a rivalry between Holy Cross and PC. Back then? Probably? Yeah. Yeah. My freshman year was the last time we played Boston College in a competitive football game. So that's yeah. I would say the word competitive is sadly true. Let's see, so you played all this is interesting. You played rugby, college club rugby and at Trimurial hockey. Tell us about those experiences at college. So I'd never heard of rugby before, and I went to my first rugby practice not knowing anything about it.

10:05 I got invited by some friends who knew that I had played football in high school and I just fell in love with it. It was just a fun game with a lot of the athletic requirements that I had learned over the years about, you know, tackling and handling the ball, and it was very similar to football in that respect, and I just loved it. It was really a lot of fun and it was competitive. We had a really good team, and we got to travel the world. I went to Ireland, I went to England, I went to the Bahamas. I got to play, you know, in other parts of the country. It was great and really helped me to learn about other cultures that I probably wouldn't have learned about if I hadn't taken up the sport.

11:00 And then just I still watch it on TV now. I love it. Someday you'll have to explain the rules to me. I know, I know, there's whatever. It's a little confusing if you don't know what you're doing and hockey you still play hockey. Right, Yeah, And I may have to hang it out. The hip is starting to really bother. Oh yeah, yeah, I've been playing hockey, uh for a long time. You know. I started skating at well five years old, and yeah, I got into intramurals and at holy Cross because I was working as the zamboni driver at the hockey rink. It's got to be the best job. I didn't know that.

11:42 It was a great job. I really I really loved it, and you know, I was up there all the time, and I just figured, all right, well play some inner murals while I'm working in between shifts and things. And then I took over the program and I ran the intramural pro for two years. It was great, and then I just kept playing. I played in men's leagues after after college, right up until you know, in competitive games until about five six years ago. And now I just periodically skate with some friends. But I you know, I love it and I wish I could do more of it.

12:24 But the body isn't cooperating as much as it used to. So we all know that story. So, Tim, when did you know you wanted to practice law and why did you choose Suffolk? Okay, Well, so at Boston College High School, I took a business law class and the teacher told me that I had an aptitude for the law, so that piqued my interest. My cousin that I told you about before that went the Holy Cross. He ended up going to law school and is a lawyer. Now, my uncle was a lawyer, my cousin is a lawyer, my other cousin's a lawyer, and so it just was part of the family, and so I just was introduced to it at an early age. And my dad really wanted to go to law school, but unfortunately I couldn't afford it and didn't go.

13:23 Became a probation officer instead. So you know, it's something that I thought would make him proud of me, which I think it did, and I just wanted to do it, probably right out of high school. I took English in college because I wanted to be a good writer and articulate and thought that was a good choice for law school. And I chose Suffolk frankly because it was a local school. I knew I wanted to live and work around here, and it was less expensive than some of the other schools I got into that I was paying for it, you know, budget was a budget right, so.

14:11 But also a very good school with a great reputation, good education. Yeah, and you know, it's become a really really great school. It was a good school when I was there, and I learned a lot and I got a lot of good experience because they have really good internships and opportunities like that. But it's grown. They built the new facility, they've got really high level professors. Now the reputation has gone way up, and that's something I'm really proud of. I'm glad I went there. Fantastic. Hey, we're going to take our first break right here. Tim will be back in about them and everybody else will be back in about one minute with Tim Foley.

14:54 Tim Foley, Tim Kenney of Fully and Fully PC be right back. You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on W four cy Radio. That's W four cy dot com. Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up right here on Winning Business Radio. Have you ever dreamt of being on the radio, Well, now it's your chance. Be a radio show guest on the number one ranked internet radio station and promote you and your business for free. Yes you heard it, Free business advertising right here on W four cy dot com.

15:35 Call five six one five zero six four zero three one Now to get booked on one of our shows. That's five six one five zero six four zero three to one GEG. You're free advertising now. And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene, presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again us to Kevin Hallanett. We're back with Tim Kanneely, attorney at law who specializes in we'll get into this employment law among a few other things, but that's his primary focus shareholder and attorney at the firm of Fully and Fully Tim. Before we get into the law, a couple of things to ask and congratulate you about cum laude. You graduated cum laude from Suffolk, but you were involved in two programs. I want to ask about the Public Defender Program and you got an American Jurisprudence Award. If you tell us about those two things.

16:43 Sure. So. The Public Defender Program was a great experience for me. That interest in being a litigator being in court, and that program allowed me to actually directly represent some criminal defendants in court. There were lower level criminal events, but it was an opportunity to get into the courtroom, learn how to argue in front of a judge. I got to try a case in front of the jury. You know, it was fun, And I knew I didn't really want to do criminal law, but I really wanted that experience of being in the courtroom and understanding how to present in front of a judge and a jury.

17:32 And that gave me that opportunity. So I was proud of that and glad that I had that opportunity. The Jurisprudence Award basically just got the highest grade and property of the other students in my in my grade levels. So that's that's how I. Got that perfect Nothing wrong with that, all right. So summarizing Suffolk, this is a this is a I mean, this might be easier. You might think about it for a second. What would you arguably say is your most important lesson learned from law school. Being analytical. It's a general answer right now, But being able to look at a situation, break it down into its component parts, and sort of analyze a path forward is I think an important skill for attorneys, and I've used it now for thirty years, and so I'd say that that ability to break down a problem into its component parts and sort of analyze a path to the end result that the client wants. Is probably a strength of mine and one that I believe I developed that Suffolk Law school.

18:55 That's actually a good answer. All right, let me get into your employment history a little bit. It's I would argue, it's commendable only because and a bit unusual thirty four years and only three firms. The first one was just a short time. But I think that's that's a testament to you first as a law clerk then later attorney at Johnson me and may just tell us a little bit about that work, and then I'll ask a similar question, what's your lesson learned or you know, key takeaway from that first experience. Sure, so that was the That was an internship initially that I had in law school. It was paid, it was great. They were a high profile criminal defense firm, and I got to do a lot of pleadings and investigation, and there was some court time where I sat with the lawyers and got to get a little bit experienced there.

19:55 And then I stayed on only for a few months, as after I got sworn into the bar, they were kind enough to let me stick around while I was looking for a permanent job, and again I knew I didn't really want to do criminal law. But it was a great experience as far as courtroom learning, how to argue cases and argue issues and research and present motions and things. So excellent. You do a fair amount of criminal case Yeah, hello, court room work, now right, I do? Yeah, So that. Has much as I can doesn't happen. There's not as many trials anymore, is there.

20:44 So is that in general? Would you say? Or it did COVID affect that it's in general it's a situation where the courts are overwhelmed, I believe with cases and so ninety five us percent settle. The ones that don't settle are typically you know, large malpractice cases and things of that nature that they get get court time. It's hard to get in and in front of a jury these days, so you know, when you do, it's it's a For someone like myself, it's a it's a it's a nice experience.

21:27 All right. You were at Helly and Healy for fourteen years. Tell us about that work. So that firm focused on insurance defense, which is basically we had relationships with the number of insurance companies and they hired us to defend their insurance. So I handled all different kinds of cases, slip and fall cases, car accidents, uh fires, any kind of casualty case that you can think of that people present a claim to their insurance company or they sue someone for personal injury. So I was defending a lot of those cases that you know, you you see companies advertising, you see law firms advertising on TV about personal injury. I was defending cases against those firms for about fourteen years.

22:28 And a similar question key takeaway or you know some lesson lesson or lessons that you learn that you still refer to from heally and heally from that experience. Yes, So in that world there's a lot more trial time, or at least there was back when I was younger. So I got into court a lot and got to do a lot of motion practice and arguing in front of the juries and judges and I try to cases and it was great experience in that respect, also learned a lot about a lot of different kinds of law.

23:10 When you're doing insurance defense work, you're handling a myriad of cases in all kinds of areas, representing all kinds of different companies and people, and so I got a sense for all the different kinds of things that were out there and what I liked and what I didn't like. And fortunately, one of the things I really liked was representing businesses and helping them with employee issues and contracts and disputes related to those issues. And that sort of transitioned me into my current. Position, which is a good segue.

23:50 So you joined fully and fully. I didn't write the date down a number of years ago. Twenty twelve, was it? It was March of twenty Oh wait. Oh wait, sorry about that, I got that wrong. Okay, So what was behind decision? That decision? It sounds like it was the type of law. But what was behind that decision to leave Healing and Heally and join fully and fully? Well, so, you know, unfortunately at Healing and Heally was having some struggles at the time. It was sort of a power struggle, and who looked to me like it wasn't long for existence. And I had been there a long time and I had two young children, so I was I was a little nervous, and I just started looking around and fortunately for me, you know, the folks that fully and fully needed a litigator and they had hired recently another attorney from my firm at Healing Healey, who recommended me, and I got the job. So it was great. It was good timing. I got to leave a firm that I really liked heally and Heally, but I saw the writing on the wall and needed to get out before it sort of fell apart, which it ultimately did and ended up at fully and fully and

25:24 been there for long, you know, fifteen years now. It's been great. I was just gonna ask a quer. Oh, So the work that you do now is really summarize it's employment law employer side. Everyone probably asks you that you're representing the employer, not the employee primarily, and they're often, if not always, business owners, right. Right. Well, I mean, we do some insurance work because our clients sometimes have insurance, so we work with the insurance companies as well, but primarily we are working on behalf of the business owner. We deal a lot with their human resource officers if they have them, but it's primarily working with businesses to help them navigate the various laws that apply to their relationship with their employees. And we do that across the United States. We have clients in many states, and we have licensed attorneys in many states, and it's really quite challenging and fun because we have to know the laws at the federal level, state level, and the local level.

26:40 I was going to ask about that, then there could be overlaps in the same case. That is correct. Yeah, yeah, there are two parts of the law I want to get into before we're done. But it seemed to me like there were layers there as well. How do you differentiate, for someone that doesn't know the law a listener or a viewer, between employment law and labor law. So labor law deals with the union world. It's it's the National Labor Relations Act is the primary law governing labor law, and the National Labor Relations Board is the primary administrative agency that handles that Act. But in the lower level, it's companies that are unionized have collective bargaining agreements, and those agreements governing the relationship between the employer and the employees and their unions.

27:36 So that's laid wages and benefits and hours and all kinds. Of things right right. And then employment law it is typically while there's some overlap, typically it's dealing with private employers who are not unionized, who must adhere to the state, the local, state, and federal laws that govern their employment relationships. All right, quick question, just an opinion here, And this was only because it came up I saw on the news or I read something where oh, the port workers from like New England to I don't know as far down as I don't know Florida or I don't know where, but all kinds of red on the map right that they were showing.

28:21 And one of. The assertions that the union is making is they don't want any technology or like cranes or anything mechanized. What do you think of that? Is that more of a positioning statement than what they actually want? Do you think or what are your thoughts? Well, I mean, the union's job is to represent the workers and ensure as many people are employed as possible in the workplace. Right, so if you if you mechanize, I obviously going to cut jobs, and so the union has to push to prevent the loss of jobs. Now, whether it's a bargaining tool is a different issue, but they don't I'm sure want there'd be any loss of jobs, so I'm sure they're using it to bargain a bit.

29:25 But I'm also sure that they are fully vested in trying to find a world where you know, you can mechanize but not cut jobs. Yeah, I mean just saying. When I read that, it just seemed maybe I didn't understand it completely, but it just seemed, how do you get rid of cranes at a port? You're going to get one hundred guys to lift up a can? You know? I don't know. It just struck me. All right, let's take another break, our second break right here. We'll be back everybody in just about a minute with Tim Kennilly of Fully and Fully Long. You're listen new to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

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30:49 And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again is Kevin Helenett. All right, we're back with Tim Kennely Folly and Folly Law. Tim a couple of other areas are contracts. Is that in the normal course of business, like we're viewing or preparing contracts for vendors, sellers, et cetera. So most of the contracts that we do are employment related, not all of them, but most of them. I mean it's employment agreements, shareholder agreements, partnership agreements, so it typically has to do with either the employment relationship or the owner's relationship with one another. And we do things like non competition agreements and confidentiality agreements NDA's and the like.

32:00 So it's mostly employment related contracts or business contracts for the business itself. Okay, and then of course litigation won a problem with curst. Right. We will typically litigate to back up any contract that we create, but also if the clients have a contract dispute, we will represent them in that. Yes, all right. You also, I saw you had the firms training division Affirmative Action and hip A compliance practices. You want to touch on those for just a moment. Sure, So we do a lot of training for employers. We train their staff on anything from sexual harassment prevention, we train HR folks and hiring practices. We train on ocean compliance. We train on pretty much anything that has to do with managing the staff. So we do manager training, investigation training, we do you know, trainings that allow people to you know, pay wages properly. So so anything really that has to do with the workplace we can give a training to whoever the employees are that that need that education. I apologize, What were the.

33:33 Other Affirmative action and HIPPO similar right? Yeah, So HIPNA has to do with obviously compliance with the confidentiality of medical records. There's a lot of confusion about what, where and when HIPPER applies. So we give education to HR folks about that because a lot of times medical information comes in to the workplace for leave or accommodation matters, right, And there's some confusion about when and if hip or applies to those scenarios. So we give them an understanding of that. Affirmtive action is it only applies to certain businesses and certain sizes, and we create furtive action programs for those clients as needed, and we try to explain to them the appropriate hiring practices that they need to implement in order to ensure that they are striving for a diverse work environment consistent with a furtive action.

34:42 So give us a thumbnail on that, and then I've got some other questions not relative to that, but affirmative action, is it hiring from the proper or diverse pool or is it diverse hires or I mean, what does that really look like? Sure, so a lot of people think that they're a quote is that when you have a front of action, But there there's no quotas. What it is is, it's it's a it's a goal to endeavor to hire more diverse workforce. So you look at your existing workforce, you measure it against the available workers in your hiring area, and you determine whether or not you are at or below or perhaps even above the available numbers in the different categories of race, gender, You know, and you and you basically try to then if you are low in a category, if you don't have enough female employees perhaps or enough disabled workers, perhaps, you then try to implement strategies for the upcoming year that will enable you to find those workers and attract more those workers. So the goal of a furtive action is to constantly try to implement new methods of attracting a more diverse workforce and ultimately,

36:14 you know, get people hired into a more diverse work work environment. All right, what is the size? And maybe this is an unfair question, you can answer any way you want. The size of a typical client, It sounds like you work with some smaller clients, but also some larger. So we work with pretty much anybody that has employees. So as you can imagine, it's we have some clients that have two or three employees, and then we have clients that have thousands of employees. And you know, the laws vary by size at times. But you know, there are very similar issues across all levels of employment with you know, face issues of wage and hour violations and discrimination and harassment, things of that nature apply it very small businesses much like they apply at very large businesses.

37:12 But then you know, as you grow and companies, you get covered by more and more laws. So if you have fifty or more employees, for example, you have to adhere to the FMLA Family Medical Leave Act, to federal law. And you know, just knowing what laws apply to your business is difficult task for some employees, especially multi jurisdictional employers. So that's what we try to provide, an understanding of what laws apply to your business and how can you comply and how do you avoid the risk of violating.

37:52 So for multi jurisdictional does it matter more where the employer is or where the employee is or is it not that simple? Well, it's typically where the employee is. And so it's become more interesting with remote workers, right, I mean, you know, COVID brought about a rise in remote workers. So business it has one employee working in Wyoming remotely is now a Wyoming employer, you know, and so you know they have to understand what Wyoming laws govern that relationship. I did not realize that that's a that's a big ripple.

38:34 That's why I have a job, that's right, keep it up, keep it up. We like lots of problems. Yeah, and I can all right, I do want you to get into two areas and we have we have plenty of time to dig into these. Uh, you know, we have a good ten minutes here. So attendance management and leave laws, particularly in mass but you know, I know, I know that's where you and I are, and we're at least a fair share of of our listeners and viewers are. But talk about kind of the things people got to watch out before. I know you give this presentation, but you're also an expert. What do companies need to guard themselves against with regard to attendance management and leave laws? Sure, so a lot of these laws overlap. So you know, again you have FMLA, which is a federal law that can apply in let's use Massachusetts an example in Massachusetts.

39:29 But then Massachusetts also has paid Family Medical Leave, which is an FMLA type state law. And so you have to understand how those two work together, and you can run those two leaves and currently, and you have to understand how you do that and when you do that because you want you don't want to have a situation where the worker takes twenty weeks of paid family medical leave and then stacks another twelve weeks of FMLA on the back end of that, and it's out for thirty two protected weeks of time. So you want to have those two leaves run together, and then the maximum leave would be twenty weeks. So we try to explain how that works to clients. But then in addition, there are protections for workers in all these leave laws. And again I'll give you the example of Massachusetts that paid family medical leave law has built into it a six month window after the leave in which it is presumed retaliation if you take adverse employment action against that worker who's taken a paid family medical lead.

40:42 Now, so it doesn't mean there can't be averse action against the employee. It just means go ahead. It just means you have to have good evidence of a non leave related, non paid family medical leave related reason for the adverse action. And you know, so. Employers have to document well that a lot of times it's a performance issue that they're trying to discipline for and they you know, they have to have good records of poor performance or you can't robut the presumption of retaliation for that leave, you. Know, I'm not a lawyer, but I tell people all the time, uh, document, document, document, because I'm around a lot of you know, in my my case sales organizations.

41:29 But you know there are people coming and going all the time, and some for performance. I was telling them, Hey, I don't know, check with your attorney, but you document everything. I can tell you that for sure. Yeah. It's it's soft and sad, and I think it's true. It's if it's not documented, it didn't happen. Yeah. Yeah, Uh. And people can get paid leave for various reasons. My son and his and his wife benefited greatly from when their too goods are born. We never had that. Uh you know. I worked from my father in law and he basically said, all right, kids born, back to work, right. Yeah. Well, I can remember some sleepless nights wondering how I was going to stay awake at work.

42:12 And yeah, you know. So paid family medical leave and other paid leaves in other states are very similar these days, and it's become a wider trend. And you can take bonding leave after the child's bonn typically if you take the leave within the first twelve months following the birth, which you know, it's a great benefit, and I think it's a great opportunity for parents to bond with their child, But it does take a toll on the business, And yeah, navigating those leaves is at times difficult for HR people. So we have a lot of the business.

42:55 Right, the smaller business, the smaller the business, the more impactful I'm at. Yeah, especially if you don't have you can't replace the person because they've taken a protected leave, So it is difficult. Sometimes you have to hire a temporary worker or other people have to pick up the slack. But yeah, it's I think the most difficult part of an HR job is managing leave. It'd be HR would be an easy job if it wasn't for the employees. Right, I believe that would be true. Running a business wouldn't be so complicated it wasn't for the customers. Yeah, so that people can qualify for various reasons health issues in addition to having kids. What are some of the other areas that might that employers want to be aware of.

43:51 So military leave is a big one, or military related injuries is a big one. So you know, obviously we want to support our our wounded warriors and our military personnel. So it's important to understand their rights. There's a federal law called You Sarah that also comes into play, so that's a big one. Then you have the Americans with Disability Act, which is a law that protects people with a disability and affords them the right to a reasonable accommodation for their disability that will enable them to perform the essential functions of their job. And that's a tricky one and employers can sometimes run to follow that one without any intention whatsoever. So we have a lot of inquiries from clients about eighty eight compliance and accommodation obligations and what's an undue hardship. You know, the employer can decline in accommodation if it's an undue hardship, but it's very specific standard there that employers have to know and understand and meet if they want to challenge an accommodation on the basis want to do hardships. So we spend a lot of time talking to the clients about those issues and trying to navigate those lead laws to help them to avoid claims and disputes with their staff.

45:21 All right, let's shift gears a little to the pay pay transparency laws give us an overview and you'll probably have some questions there. Sure. So, So Massachusetts, like a number of other states across the country, has elected to adopt pay transparency, and we're going to have a similar law here in Massachusetts to other states like California and Colorado and the like. But basically, what pay transparency is is an effort to disclose what jobs, the pay rate of jobs. And then and the mindset behind it is is pay equity. It's it's the idea that we need to ensure that women and minorities are paid on the same level as Caucasian males, and that that still remains statistically unequal, right, it's just the reality, and so that these laws have been implemented to try to diminish the disparity that exists. And the and the and the thought process is that if you disclose what a job pays, and you you know, lay it out on the table, that that people will eventually all earn equal pay for equal work. So the pay

46:56 transparency law that Masschus is adopting require any job posting to include the salary range or the hourly rate range for that position. Employers will also be required to, on request from an existing employee, explain it and give them the pay range for their job. If there's a new job that they want to aspire to or get promoted to, they can get the pay range for that job. So when you say range, there's still some negotiation. There is just in fact a range. The employer can put out what they pay from the lowest level to the highest level of that position. And obviously you know that takes into account the fact that some people in the position will have been there longer, will have more experience, perhaps be bringing more to the table, and therefore they get paid a little bit more than people on the lower end that have experience, haven't been there as long, or maybe aren't bringing us much to the table. But they they want the employer to layout that.

48:09 That imagine that's difficult for those difficult to justify maybe document those differences, right as you say, bringing more to the table, bringing less longer in the position less long. Yeah, Well, I think it's critical that the employers have a pay range that they can support and document. So while it is potentially difficult, I do want to have backup for well, why they pay this low on one end and on the other end, because it could be challenged on it. And again, pay equity requires you to pay, at that fundamental level, equal pay for equal work. So if you're going to pay somebody doing the same job as another at a different level, you have to be able to justify the difference. And it obviously can't be based on gender or race, so you have to show that it's based on certain other factors that are business related.

49:20 What we got to wrap this up, but it sounds like there's there's more what's the word that more justification for even some of the training you do to make sure that people are doing this correctly, to provide resources and training and not just protection when it happens, but preparation to avoid it from happening happening, right. And we've got an audit service that we do. We audit people's payroll practices and try to give them recommendations for how to pay with consistent with the laws that apply. So it is it is something that we train them on. It is something that we audit and help them to put in place. So because it is difficult and how many claims can be expensive if you do get sued for these kind of things.

50:03 All right, last two questions both very quick. Who in the listening and viewing audiences should reach out to you and why? Well, So, anyone that owns a business and has employees is a potential client of them. And they have HR, that's fine. If they don't have HR, that's fine. We work with We work with companies that have no HR, companies that have HR, companies have in a house counsel. We work with all differents and all different kinds because our specialty is employment law and there's constant evolution under the law, and we stay on top of it so the clients don't have to So anybody that's worried about compliance with the various laws and the changing laws and that has employees.

50:58 We can help them excellent. And last question is simple. There's information that's going across the crawl for everybody. Best way for people to reach you is email or phone? What would you prefer, I mean, hie way email. You know, obviously email is the current preferred method of communication, so email would be fine. But if people prefer or pick up the phone and give me a call, I welcome it. I enjoy talking to people on phone. So sounds good. Sounds good, well, tim, Thank you very much, I know you're busy. Appreciate you taking the time and being here. It's been fun. Kevin, Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. My pleasure, my pleasure, and thanks everybody for watching and listening.

51:40 As most of you know, this is your show about business and often business challenges. If you've got concerns about the growth of your company, feel free to reach out to me. You can find me on Facebook or LinkedIn and that's at Winning Business Radio. You can drop me a note one of my many email addresses Kevin at Winning Business Radio dot com. Our company is Winning Incorporated, part of Sandler Training. We develop sales teams into high achievers and sales leaders into true coaches and mentors. We're not a fit for everybody, but hey, maybe we should have a conversation. Thank you once again to producer and engineer one. Thank you one for another job well done. Be sure to join us again next week for that's in Monday, October seventh. My guest will be Evan Poland, president of business development provider Poland Performance Group. Until then, this is Kevin Helenan.

52:28 You've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host, Kevin Helena. If you missed any part of this episode. The podcast is available on Talk for Podcasting and iHeartRadio. For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio dot com or check us out on social media. Tune in again next week and every Monday at four pm Eastern Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on W four CY Radio w fourcy dot com. Until then, let's succeed where others have failed and win in business with Kevin Helenan and Winnie Business Radio