April 14, 2025

Frank Lobb, retired U.S. Navy pilot and author of "The Big Lie in My Healthcare Bill"

Frank Lobb, retired U.S. Navy pilot and author of "The Big Lie in My Healthcare Bill"

Frank Lobb, author of The Big Lie in My Healthcare Bill, is a retired Navy pilot, was DuPont Process Instruments GM, DuPont’s Environmental Services GM, was a Principal Consultant at Monsanto, then Clean Air Engineering on regulatory law and...

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Frank Lobb, author of The Big Lie in My Healthcare Bill, is a retired Navy pilot, was DuPont Process Instruments GM, DuPont’s Environmental Services GM, was a Principal Consultant at Monsanto, then Clean Air Engineering on regulatory law and compliance.
That enabled Frank to force EPA to scrap 3 years of work on the Clean Air Act and rewrite the compliance section.
Later, Frank was able to dissect the hidden contract provisions the healthcare insurance industry uses to deny care and coverage.

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Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are

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condemned to repeat it. Kevin Helen n believes that certainly

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applies to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at

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W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com

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and now your host, Kevin Helen.

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Thanks everybody for joining in today. I am Kevin Hallanan

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find your favorite podcasts, we are there. The mission of

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this show, winning Business radio and TV, as regular viewers

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and listeners know, is to offer insights and advice, really

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to help people avoid the mistakes of others, to learn

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best practices. Those are the how tos, the what twos,

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the what not tos, to be challenged and hopefully to

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be inspired by the successes of others. Those consultants, coaches, advisors.

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Today's an author, founders and owners, entrepreneurs. He's also an

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entrepreneur people with expertise. But you know, virtually every successful

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person I've ever had a chance to talk to has

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had some form of failure in their lives and careers.

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So while we all have to get our knee skin

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once in a while, I'm driven to keep those scrapes

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from needing major surgery. Let's endeavor to learn from history

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so we don't repeat it. I've spent the better part

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of my career equipping businesses to grow, and that's from

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solopreneurs to small and medium sized companies all the way

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up to the fortune fifty. I've seen some of those

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companies win into varying degrees. I've seen some fail I've

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had the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the

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highest performing people around and with some who probably should

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have found other professions. In my own businesses, I've had

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lots of success, but some failures too, So I like

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to think I've learned a lot from those experiences. And

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of course you're going to hear from me my opinions

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and insights. But anybody who knows, because excuse me, anyone

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who knows me will tell you I've sometimes a hard

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time staying quiet, Frank. But more importantly, together we'll hear

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from experts, those consultants, coaches, authors, advisors, founders, owners, entrepreneurs.

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And today my guest is Frank Club, retired US Navy

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pilot and author of Ready, the Big Lie in My

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Healthcare Bill. I was not I was intrigued, but then

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not happy when I read this, and so you'll get

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the same response I think. Frank lab is a retired

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US Navy pilot with a long and distinguished career outside

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the Navy, including roles as general manager for DuPont Processed

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Instruments and then for DuPont's environmental services business. After retiring

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from DuPont, Frank served as a principal consultant at Monsanto

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and then Clean Air Engineering on regulatory law and compliance.

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It was this extensive background in the law in compliance

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that allowed him to be credited with forcing the EPA

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to scrap three years of work on the Clean Air Act.

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I want to hear about that and rewrite the compliance

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section of the Act around his recommendations. And it was

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this same background that excuse me and expertise that allowed

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Frank to access and dissect the carefully hidden contractual provisions

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that the healthcare industry uses to deny care and coverage

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patients are owed from their health insurance. Now eighty six,

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Frank lives on a two acre working farm with Angie,

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his English wife, in Chester County, Pennsylvania, along with Angie's

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seventeen ducks in their two English Springer Spaniels. From there,

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together with their son and son in law, they own

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and operate the leading hardware and supply business in the region,

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and in keeping with his age and long standing promise

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to Angie, Frank has promised this will be his very

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last book on healthcare because he's finally found the solution

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to the fraud and misrepresentation in the nation self insurance

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that he has sought for so long. Frank, welcome to

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Winning Business Radio.

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Thank you very much. I already got to kick out

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of the introduction.

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Well it's a good one. I mean it's long, but

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there's a lot in there, and I didn't want to

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water it down too much. I want people to understand

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who you are and how you came to this place something.

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Yeah, I did force EPA to right the comply, sure, Eric,

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but I didn't take away the environmental piece. I sent

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them simply made EPA comply with the law as Congress

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had written it.

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Well, that still doesn't sound like an easy task.

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Different In other words, I wasn't arguing what was right

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or wrong right other than you can't do something other

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than Congress dictated in the law. And it's pretty much

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the same thing I'm doing here. There's a part of

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the law, or at least in this case, it's contract

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law that you can't see. And it took me three

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years with the knowledge that I have to get access

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to these contracts, and I'm honestly never bumped into anybody

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except somebody maybe within the industry that's ever read them.

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Well, that's unbelievable. Let me back you up. A little bit, though,

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tell us about the business, a little bit about the hardware.

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Cameron's right, Well.

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It's a We have about fifty employees and we're a

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hardware supply business. We're the largest actually firearms supplier in

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the southeast corner of Pennsylvania. Have a long hunting tradition.

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We've got a two hundred acre farm that backs into

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two thousand acres of woods and fields. And that's the

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way we like to live. We live in the in

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the big in the bigger world. But this healthcare thing

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is simply I had a situation years ago where they

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denied care for somebody in the family.

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And this was your first wife, right, yes, and she.

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Died and I had offered to pay for it, I said,

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when Blue Cross refused to pay, I said I'd pay,

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and I was told I couldn't. They wouldn't allow me

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to pay.

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All right, stop right there? How does that work? I mean,

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that doesn't even make sense.

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Well it does. Let's get into this.

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Sure, Yeah, go ahead, we'll jump in.

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Way back. Thirty five years ago, the Supreme Court ruled

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unanimously that healthcare insurance companies could induce rationing the words

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induce because they can't force it. An insurance company has

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no legal right to determine what is appropriate healthcare.

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That's up to the docks right and escape period.

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Okay, only your doctor can do that, and only the

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doctor in attendance, not the guy down the block, only

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the hold of your hand.

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So it's not a doctor at the insurance company. It's

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not a doctor administrator.

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The right word there. Legally is no standing. I don't

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care what he says. He can do what he wants.

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But the thing is that the insurance companies have had

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the power to decide what they're going to cover, and

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if you look at their contracts, they give themselves the

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power to deny coverage any time they want. But that's

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not I.

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Think we've all experienced that. But go ahead.

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Yeah, but that's not enough for them, and that's what

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I ran into. They don't just deny coverage for you,

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They deny all payment for anybody that's in network. So

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anybody that's got a contract with the insurance industry, when

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they deny coverage, they bar everybody within the in network

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community from accepting any for care for you.

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So that practically speaking, that ceases care for that particular

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ailment or situation.

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And if you think about if you look at healthcare,

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fifty percent of the family bankruptcies in the country are

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for a healthcare bill. Well, that's not for a bill

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for a doctor bill where you win, I spend thirty

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bucks or one hundred bucks to go see your doctor.

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That's for a hospital bill or you cancer.

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That's for major accidents.

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Right, yeah, that's where a hospital bill can three days

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can cost you one hundred thousand dollars. And so how

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many hospitals you think are going to give you care

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when they know they're not allowed to build for it

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and it could cost thousands.

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All right, but they do build.

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Well, well, what they do is they find a way

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to say no. They make it sound like the whole

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issue is the insurance. No, because the rules that they

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have matter figure out. I have a podcast I just

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wrote for a substack, and what I said was Einstein

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said years ago that you have to know the rules

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of the game and then play it better than anybody

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else and everybody. Anything we know about health insurance is

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deliberately false. It's not insurance. It's not yours. You don't

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the bill is not yours. The contracts say they can

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only bill the provider, the in network provider. Okay, and

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we are assured of getting all the care that our doctor,

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our doctor says we need, regardless of reimbursement. Now tell

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me where that where you find that in any discussion

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with your doctor, the hospital, or anybody within the American

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healthcare system.

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All right, So I'm a patient. You know, I'm a

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regular person like you or anybody else. I have a

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series of doctors because I'm older. You know, I don't

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have one pediatrician or you know, one GP because I'm

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young and healthy. Stuff gets stuff happens when you get older.

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So we have a series of doctors. We go there,

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they treat us, then we get a bill. Well, in

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other words, that's our perspective as patients.

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Right, hardware business, I'm sitting in the office, and we

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could send bills to everybody. That doesn't mean they're due

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or they should pay us.

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But we pay them because we don't know otherwise.

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Because we don't know any better. And if I could

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do that in a hardware business, I'd be a billionaire overnight. Okay.

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What do they do they tell you when you that

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you have insurance it's an insurance product. No, it's not

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under law, it is not insurance insurance. There has to

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be a contract between you and the insured, and there

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is no such thing. They make you think it's yours.

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And when you go into any hospital, there's that little

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piece of paper or on the wall you take responsibility.

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For every year, sign a little likenic signature every time

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I go, sign the little electronic signature pad.

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You can't say you can't sell something when you surrender

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the right to bill for it a long time ago,

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when they signed these contracts, they surrender the right to

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bill you so long as it's medically necessary care. And

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any care you get from your doctor is medically necessary

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by definition, because he's not allowed to give you anything else.

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All right, What about the instances where a doctor says

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it's medically necessary but the insurance company says we don't agree.

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Well, I can say it's not medically necessary. What basis

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in law do I have to say that the insurance

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company is simply using its hidden authority to deny coverage

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any time they want and not telling you that you

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can't be billed for it, but you're still owed it.

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Okay, So take us back if you don't mind, give

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me a little bit more of the specific around your

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wife's situation. I mean you got hammered with bills. I mean,

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how did you start to figure this out?

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Well, I had a lot of experience in reading contracts,

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and so for the out of the Navy and I

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went to work for DuPont and I became a general

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manager and any process instruments and a few other things.

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And I was supposedly very good at writing contracts. And

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then I got off onto the environmental side because DuPont

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was very deeply involved in finding the entire environmental at

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least air compliance. And then I got into determining regulatory compliance.

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And I toured the country with EPA, helping people understand

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what constitutes compliance. So when I lost my wife, what

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do you mean, how can you deny me the right

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to pay for the care for my wife? So I

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took him to court and we were in court for

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eight years.

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This is a particular insurance company. Now yeah, okay, yes.

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But see how it's wrong then, because I sued the

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insurance coming, they have a right to do what they did.

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Now they lied like a rug. But that's another story.

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But I did not understand this system until years into it,

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when I finally forced my writer got the ability to

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go into a library and sit down and read the contracts.

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And just to help everybody understand, I knew, because of

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what I was doing in air Compliance and down in Washington,

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that if I made enough phone calls, i'd find somebody

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that would read these. So I was allowed into the library,

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and I was allowed to take all the notes I wanted,

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but I could not copy anything, and I could not

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use anything directly. Now what made it so easy is one,

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I know contracts too. They're all the same. I don't

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care whether you're looking at Pennsylvania or California or Florida.

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These are essentially, from a legal standpoint, identical contracts in

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terms of conditions. Once I understood those, then I had

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the basis to take the system apart. Because like coverage,

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if you're buying insurance, the first thing they're going to

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tell you is what's covered, right, But the first time

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they say it's not covered, they deny the very thing

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they said up front was coverage. They use coverage two

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different ways. It's what they claim they might cover where

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they don't say it that way. So when they actually

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deny coverage, well that's not a covered benefit. Well, if

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you get caught in that loop and haven't read the

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contracts to separate the two totally different, separate termament definitions,

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do how do you confront that? How do you deal

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with it? But let me jump a little further out.

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We can take this thing apart because these are smart people,

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and they've been doing it for a while.

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Sure so, and they've got lots and lots of lawyers.

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There's lots of room to argue about the little pieces

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here and there and what they've done. But the fundamental

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point is that they want to ration our healthcare and

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the only way they can do that is to deny

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all payment when they deny coverage.

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All right, we're going to pause on that thought. We're

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going to come right back to that after one minute.

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Everybody will be back with Frank Lob In just one minute.

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You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on

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W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

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Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up

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And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene,

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presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in

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mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again

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is Kevin Helena.

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We're back with franklob author of the Big Lie in

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My Healthcare Bility. You just dropped the bomb. They want

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to ration care. I think we've I think many people

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know that conceptually, but I don't think they can prove

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that or even test it legally, you know, at least

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from an individual patient's perspective. Dig in, well, this is

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gonna be fun.

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That's the fun with this. In the very in the

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Internet introduction, you mentioned that I had promised my wife

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not to write another healthcare Yeah. Yeah, because I finally

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had the answer. And the answer is I no longer

300
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have to fight them. I only have to ask the

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right question. Because the thing, there's a thing called the

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Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. And what that says is

303
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if I write a letter asking a couple of questions,

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reasonable questions about the bill, they have to answer the

305
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questions or they cannot enforce the bill. Well, the questions

306
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I would ask about the pricing and the cost of

307
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this and that are really simple and they're in the book.

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There's letters in the book, I mean, really simple things

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to do. But they can't answer them because the contracts

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I'm talking about have a confidentiality provision that doesn't allow

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any of that information to be disclosed.

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So who are you writing a letter to the doctor

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or the insurance company?

314
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:05.000
Well, the tak Host hospital Okay, right, okay, because I mean,

315
00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.119
let's not go to war with our doctors because we

316
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.279
need a good doctor. That's our access point. If we

317
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.400
shut that down, we have no access period. Issue really

318
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.759
is the big bill with the healthcare the hospitals of

319
00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.720
across the country, and that's where the money is spent.

320
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And only something like seven percent of all the bills

321
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really are out of network. So what we're talking about

322
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are the in network hospitals across the country that have

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the same contracts that I'm referring to as provider contracts

324
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or provider agreements. Okay, and they bar all payment when

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the insurer says no to coverage. They're not allowed to

326
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take any money whatsoever.

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Matter.

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00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:51.799
We got a fumble for a minute, but yep, take

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00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:59.240
it done, charl The provider bill, charge, collectedy, pauses, seek compensation,

330
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remuter or reimbursement, or have any recourse against the covered

331
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person or persons. In other words, you can't bill, you

332
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.519
can't take money, they can't do anything. That's what the

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00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:15.960
providers have agreed to. But since you've never seen it,

334
00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.759
your listeners have never seen it. And there's another neat

335
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.200
little These are smart people. There's a thing that most

336
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people don't know about. Also, it's called a thirty day window.

337
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It's actually for collection, but it gets lost. And who

338
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is a collection agency and who isn't? And the way

339
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.000
it works is that thirty days after the issuing of

340
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:43.000
a bill, if you haven't properly refuted it, contested it

341
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in writing to the right person, it's accurate in law.

342
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For enforcement's email considered in writing.

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It's considered accurate and enforceable. So well, you're making your

344
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phone calls to the insurance company coverage, which they have

345
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no obliguy to give you the bills ticking away on

346
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:09.039
it's thirty day at the provider and your toast, because

347
00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:13.039
at the end of the thirty days, whether it's when

348
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.559
I say, I want to be careful here. The bill

349
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.680
was originally written for collection agencies, but it's very difficult

350
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.279
to tell whether it's a collection agency or whether it's

351
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.519
the provider, and so forth. The point is, after thirty days,

352
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.079
the clock has run out and you don't really have

353
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a right to contest it. Now, when I said earlier

354
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that I finally had my answer. The Financial Consumer Protection Bureau,

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00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:43.240
which Trump is kind of decimated, but they published studies

356
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.240
and so forth, and something like eighty percent of the

357
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.160
hospitals are an error. Hospital bills are an error.

358
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:49.440
I saw that unbelievable.

359
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.519
Yeah, we have a right to ask for a bill

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00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:56.799
that we can understand, and let me just say it

361
00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:01.319
and keep it simple. They can't do it. So if

362
00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.880
we write a simple letter asking for a bill we

363
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:11.160
can understand, they can't give it to us. And let

364
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.119
me give you a simple example. And now this one

365
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.880
actually was Medicare, but it's the same thing. And I

366
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.680
had a small operation. I had to have it surgically.

367
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.079
I have a tooth and remove surgically. And I was

368
00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:28.319
actually in the operator. We're ready for them to start,

369
00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.680
and two people commit with a credit card machine who

370
00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.119
won three thousand dollars before they do that, before they seed?

371
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:40.079
And I have four policies. Anyway, I didn't win the argument,

372
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so I gave him a credit card, got the operation,

373
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and I came out, and I immediately called my credit

374
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.599
card company, disputed it, and I sent a letter to

375
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the State of Pennsylvania contesting the bill. I had the

376
00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:59.480
three thousand dollars back immediately, and they never once tried

377
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:04.319
to defend the bill. Well never. They sent me two

378
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invitations to come back for a follow up procedure, and

379
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:12.000
they sent me a birthday card. Now you tell me

380
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:16.240
if you if I had actually stiffed them and owed

381
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:20.359
them three thousand dollars to you, they would have not

382
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:21.200
come after me.

383
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:22.720
Not likely.

384
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:28.279
No, they have no legal standing. Simply, I simply had

385
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:29.119
to ask.

386
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:32.680
Well, the practice of doing that in that dramatic moment

387
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:36.079
in the r anyway seems ridiculous.

388
00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:39.839
Well, it is. But had I given them the three

389
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.599
thousand dollars and not known what I know and how

390
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.720
to contest it, and what's in the book. I've lost

391
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.920
three thousand dollars. And the only reason I bring up

392
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:55.319
that example because it's personal. Know it will, but the

393
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.319
fraud is so big and so real that if you

394
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:04.039
ask the question and disclose it, the system blows up.

395
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:07.200
And I have a very good friend who is a

396
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.440
former director of billing from one of the largest hospitals

397
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in the area, and I asked him about this, and

398
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.000
he says, if I got a letter like that, i'd

399
00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:18.640
round trash it. I'd put it in the trash can

400
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.000
and move on, which is what they do. So I'm

401
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.559
not telling you that we can fix the system, but

402
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.559
I am telling you, rather than read all the books

403
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.240
that just pardon my language, but bitch about the way

404
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.680
it is. Why not understand how they're playing the game

405
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.160
and then per Einstein play it better than they do

406
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.599
and call them on their own game. In other words,

407
00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:44.400
I don't owe the money.

408
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.880
So do you feel they're being I mean, if I

409
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:50.960
should choose the words carefully or just say what I'm thinking.

410
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:54.400
Do you feel like they're being dishonest in the design

411
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.720
of their quote program?

412
00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.720
I cover it in the book, and it's a very

413
00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:04.720
good question. I mean, are all these people crooks? No industry?

414
00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:07.759
I work for the industry, and there are ethics issues

415
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.920
and so forth. If you go back and look at

416
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.119
how healthcare was developed, I equate it to being on

417
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.400
a pond and you step out on thin ice and

418
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.839
every step you take that's not so bad, and then

419
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:23.599
you get so far out on the ice you can't

420
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.160
turn around. And so what I think, at least I

421
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.039
would describe it is they took step by step by

422
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.240
to where we are today, and now nobody knows how

423
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:37.799
to turn around because this is a four point three

424
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:42.880
trillion dollar market that's with a d trillion, and they're

425
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.079
making hand money, hands over fist.

426
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:46.680
Hard to turn that off.

427
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:50.920
We're not in trouble. They separate their money, they have

428
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.880
the trust fund and the Dolman funds and so forth,

429
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:58.559
and then they do their operating costs. They're fine. And

430
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:02.200
what we have is what called it economics and an

431
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:08.119
inelastic market where we've given the insurance companies monopolies. They

432
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.279
own their territories, they can charge and do whatever they

433
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:14.920
want because there is no competition. And you know we

434
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.079
get from Washington, well, what we need is competition. Are

435
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.920
you kidding me. You're talking about healthcare costs. How many

436
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:28.079
people really shop hospitals when they need care? Not many?

437
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.240
And even then, how would you know there are seventy

438
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:35.119
seven thousand different billing codes?

439
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:38.079
Is that where most of the errors are?

440
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.079
Is that?

441
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.359
What is that where most of the errors are? If

442
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.480
it's an eighty plus percent error rate on these bills,

443
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:46.759
do you think it's mostly in the codes?

444
00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:53.079
One could infer that I'm not going to do that

445
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:55.880
because I know that they have no right to build

446
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.359
me in all kinds of areas to start with. So

447
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:03.440
if I throw that in the eighty percent, that sounds small.

448
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.640
I had breakfast a number of years ago with a

449
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:09.359
doctor and his wife. There were both doctors, large hospital

450
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:12.400
down in Maryland, and I brought this issue up and

451
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.119
they both broke out laughing, and they what they said

452
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.480
was that over sixty percent of the bills are created

453
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.400
in the billing office, not in the hospital. So that's

454
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:27.640
just hearsay, that's just people. But if you think about it,

455
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.039
with seventy seven thousand billing codes, they can't even agree

456
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.000
on how to use them, because you can combine them

457
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:39.359
into a single code, or you could split them up

458
00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.960
and build them separately. The hospitals prefer to split them

459
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.039
up because they can build more, and the insurance companies

460
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:49.720
prefer to collect them and bill them as a single

461
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.279
code under a number of codes, because then they can

462
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.400
pay less. So what the truth just number is I

463
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.200
don't know, but it fees my book very well. Oh,

464
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.680
because what I said earlier was they really can't give

465
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:08.559
you an understandable bill, and under law they have an

466
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:12.359
obligation to do that. And fortunately there have been enough

467
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.279
studies and enough work done by the Financial Consumer Protection

468
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.599
Bureau that we can cite them and simply, in all

469
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.480
due honesty, say I want to get this bill paid,

470
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.240
but you need to help me. Help me understand my bill,

471
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:30.079
and they can't do it. And so what I would

472
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.480
say to everybody here is, you know, my dad taught

473
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.039
me a long time ago, you have to be able

474
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.119
to take care of yourself, and if you don't, you

475
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.720
deserve what you get. I'm not, but it would be,

476
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:43.200
it would advise.

477
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:47.079
It would be, it would serve everybody well if they

478
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:50.480
simply read it and understood it's not a very long

479
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:54.400
book and at least understand the system, as Einstein said,

480
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.079
then you can decide how you're going to play it,

481
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.559
but I recommend you play it better at least the hospitals.

482
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:02.920
Well, I didn't read the book before the show. I

483
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.359
did order it. It's on the way, so I will

484
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.599
be reading it because I just think. I mean, I've

485
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.759
I'm not a genius. Okay, I like to think I'm

486
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:13.880
pretty smart, but I'm not a genius. I'm simply saying

487
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:17.480
everybody knows what I'm about to say. Healthcare is broken,

488
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.680
and you know, the attempt to fix it made it

489
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:23.599
worse in my opinion, and I'm if I were a doctor,

490
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.640
I wouldn't I'd be frustrated. And many doctors, at least

491
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.319
general practitioners, they're they're going into research, they're consolidating. Our

492
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.119
doctor just left her practice for another one and a

493
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.279
big Massachusetts group like the gold Standard group, and now

494
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:40.440
she's going to another one. So even they say it's

495
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.240
messed up, you know, they can't make sense of it,

496
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:44.839
and we don't. I mean, what would you say to

497
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.960
somebody that says, oh, you're just trying to game the system,

498
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.440
and I don't believe this, but just the critics might say,

499
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.000
you're just trying to gain the system. You found a

500
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.000
loophole to not pay for what you should be paying.

501
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.480
What I'm at a hardware business. Yeah, yeah, I have

502
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:04.799
to adhere to my contracts, right sure. If I contract

503
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:08.440
to pay something, I gotta pay it. There's nothing in

504
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:12.880
my book that doesn't talk about the contracts that they

505
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:18.359
have obligated themselves and to us to perform. All I'm

506
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:21.880
saying in the book, don't stiff them, just pay what's

507
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:29.400
the contract demands? Okay? Point in our system, healthcare system,

508
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.440
if you don't take care of yourself, you're going to

509
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.640
get hurt because we are going to lose twenty percent

510
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:41.920
of our doctors. Oh next, but ten years twenty.

511
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:43.839
Percent and we're hard enough now.

512
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.240
It already takes three weeks to see a doctor. What

513
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:51.000
is the credo within a hospital emergency room when you go,

514
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.160
it's treat them and streatom. That's not my term, that's theirs.

515
00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.720
Do as little as you can and throw them out

516
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:04.160
the door, or to go see their doctor. That's the system. Now,

517
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.119
I'm not really here criticize it, right, go down, okay, right,

518
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.559
I'm just saying that as an individual, I've learned how

519
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:13.279
to deal with the system they.

520
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:15.880
Have, all right, let's hold that thought. We're going to

521
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.279
get one more commercial in. We'll be back in about

522
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:19.839
sixty seconds with Folk Club.

523
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:28.680
You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on

524
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.079
W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

525
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:35.759
Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up

526
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.160
right here on Winning Business Radio.

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538
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.440
And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene,

539
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.480
presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in

540
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:25.039
mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again

541
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:26.279
is Kevin Helena.

542
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.680
We're back with Frank Lob, author of The Big Lie

543
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.799
in my healthcare bill? What do you want people to know?

544
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:47.079
Practically speaking? Like, for example, my question is, and you've

545
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:49.559
answered a little bit of this, do I alienate my doctor?

546
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:50.119
No?

547
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.519
You said you shouldn't, and I agree. How about the hospital?

548
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:55.759
Do I alienate the hospital? Do I need an attorney?

549
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.279
Does this affect my credit score? Can you answer some

550
00:31:58.319 --> 00:31:59.400
of those questions?

551
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:05.599
Well, there's a pretty much an agreement anymore that they

552
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:09.480
can't even enter it in your record for nonpayment. But

553
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.640
I think it's one hundred and eighty days, and healthcare

554
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:20.200
bills have become notorious for misreporting, so there's been a

555
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.240
lot of work to stop it. And I'm going to

556
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.720
argue that if you follow my book, it won't ever

557
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.960
get to one hundred and eighty days. I'm going to

558
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.279
say it this way. I don't have to be right here.

559
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:37.200
I'll invite anybody within the healthcare system to come in

560
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:42.759
and tell me where I'm wrong. Now, I've talked to them,

561
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:45.559
and every time I've gotten to the subjects of book

562
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.960
tell me where I'm wrong, They've left the room. And

563
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.720
I'm not joking. My wife and I had dinner and

564
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:53.960
we happen to sit at a bar at golf club,

565
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:56.599
and there was a guy sitting next to me, and

566
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.160
I had my book with me and I had it

567
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:01.799
laying on the bar, and we got into a discussion

568
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.440
on the book, and he obviously was going to make

569
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:10.240
fun of me and I clearly was an attorney until

570
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.720
he learned that I had read the contracts. Then he

571
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.279
literally and I do not joke, he literally left his

572
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:24.000
dinner on the bar and left the room. That's real. Well,

573
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.839
these contracts are as secret as you can imagine. They've

574
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:33.880
been declared by the States as proprietary documents not to

575
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:38.079
be released to the public. So all I'm saying is

576
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.039
I've had the opportunity to read them, and since I have,

577
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.680
I can share that with the public. And I'm doing that,

578
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:48.759
And if I'm wrong, all the industry has to do

579
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:49.559
is come tell me.

580
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:54.079
Well, the interesting nuance is, and I don't know if

581
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.160
people caught this, the contract is not between the insurer

582
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.599
and us. It's between the insurre and the provider BINGO.

583
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:07.160
So what's wrong is the insurer is not enforcing its contract.

584
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.360
It's backing out of its obligation to provide coverage, knowing

585
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.800
that it can pass the bill onto the provider to

586
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:22.639
bounce onto you and in thirty days. It's real. It's

587
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:27.960
perfect system, and if we want to subject ourselves to it,

588
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:32.480
I guess that's anybody's choice. Or you can come tell

589
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.800
me where I'm wrong. But if you read these contracts

590
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:40.199
it is clear. Well i'll give you a quick example.

591
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:45.880
Every one of these contracts has a utilation review provision. So, okay,

592
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.480
you get coverage and you get the operation, and thirty

593
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.320
days later, this insurance company takes another look at it.

594
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:57.559
They call it a utilization review, and they go, oh,

595
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:02.159
we made a mistake, we should not covered this. They

596
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:04.320
then have the right to pull the money back.

597
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:06.920
I've never had that happen, Thank god.

598
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.239
Oh it's happened, Monny. Oh could give you examples and

599
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:13.400
big money. But what the people and even the attorneys

600
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.559
don't realize is that provision. Yes, the insurer can pull

601
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:21.320
the money back from the provider, but the provider is

602
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.119
absolutely barred from billing the patient. But they do, yes,

603
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.559
because you and I don't know that. We don't know

604
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:32.840
the money. You don't see the contract. If you got

605
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.840
insurance for anything else, you'd have a contract you could

606
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:41.119
review and then hold the people accountable. You have no

607
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.639
such contract. You have no ownership of what you have.

608
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.800
The provider, oh, I'm sorry, the employer owes it, or

609
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:51.840
you if you buy it yourself, the insurer owes it.

610
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:54.559
So you don't even have the right to sue because

611
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:59.199
you have no ownership. They basically close it off. It's

612
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:03.280
a great system from their side. Let's go to Einstein's world.

613
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.880
Let's learn how they're doing it, and then simply ask

614
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:10.280
a few questions and turn the system around in our favor,

615
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:13.400
because we're not going to get any more healthcare than

616
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:17.119
our doctor says we need, and we're not going to

617
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:20.519
have to pay any more or walk away from any

618
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.679
bill that their contracts don't say. We don't know. I

619
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:24.519
does that make sense?

620
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:25.199
It does.

621
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:29.239
It's convoluted, but you know it's the only all I'm

622
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.440
saying is why should I pay a bill that their

623
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:36.039
very own documents say I do not owe? And if

624
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.519
there's anybody in this business community can tell me how

625
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:40.599
to do that, I'm going to apploy it here in

626
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:43.239
my business because I got to make money.

627
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.559
The hand of her vest If you could elude that,

628
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:50.559
you're consulting, So how and why not?

629
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:50.880
How?

630
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.559
Why did this become your mission. I mean there, you

631
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:58.480
could be doing other things, right, you're going to do it.

632
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:04.760
You're to do who I am? Yeah, I and and

633
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:06.559
he said, and I have a right to look back

634
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:08.800
on my life and have an idea who I am totally.

635
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.840
I mean a decision a long time ago to stand

636
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:18.159
up for what's right. And I've hurt myself career wise

637
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.719
any number of times by saying, ah, nah, I'm not

638
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:27.760
doing that. And this was so wrong that I had

639
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.760
to find out how and why I could be wrong.

640
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:35.639
But it just seemed terribly, terribly unfair and against everything

641
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:40.360
I do in law. And once I had it, I'm

642
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:42.920
really the only one with it. You find another book

643
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.239
with it, so my only choice is either to share

644
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:50.880
it or shut up and walk away. And you know

645
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.800
that's not right. That's not when my grandfather taught me.

646
00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:59.320
I get a little mushy, but you know I still

647
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:00.679
believe right right ethics.

648
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:06.199
So this may be an obvious question. Why don't you

649
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:10.239
think more people are aware of this? How is it perpetuated?

650
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:16.840
It's completely counterintuitive If I call it insurance, every other

651
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:18.480
insurance I owe what isn't paid?

652
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:21.760
All right, So you did make the point this is

653
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:22.559
not insurance.

654
00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:23.800
No, it's not.

655
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:26.159
What would you say, what is it?

656
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:29.480
I have an attorney come in and told me how

657
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:35.719
it's insurance. It's not okay, and it just doesn't meet

658
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.079
the definition of insurance. As a matter of fact, originally

659
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:41.639
it wasn't called insurance, but there's some tax benefits from

660
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:45.199
being called and ensure, so it got Let me put

661
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:48.960
it around another way. In the state and state law,

662
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:50.880
you have a right to call yourself pretty much what

663
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.360
you want to call yourself. That doesn't mean you're really

664
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:57.519
an insurance company. So I can label myself as insurance

665
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:03.440
without meeting the needs of an insurance cump me. And

666
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.320
these are smart people. And by the way, this is

667
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:12.039
not a very simple solution or to solve. I just

668
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:14.159
believe if we're honest and we get in the room

669
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.519
and we talk about the needs of both the country

670
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.000
and the people, we could find an answer as long

671
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.000
as we stay within the truth and not try to

672
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.360
play games with it. And what's happened here is they

673
00:39:26.119 --> 00:39:29.760
and tell you very quickly they started originally giving all

674
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:33.559
the care you need for a very simple monthly payment.

675
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.320
That was the model, and that was back in around

676
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.199
nineteen twenty nine. Well, as healthcare became more expensive, they

677
00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:49.239
began looking for ways to cut costs deny coverage. So

678
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:52.320
the old model was all the care you needed for

679
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:56.519
a small upfront payment. They were never able to change it.

680
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.599
They were able to pull it back from the MA marketplace.

681
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.760
So they've kept all the care that you need. Look

682
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:06.639
at the TV commercials, but will you get it all

683
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:12.199
except when you need it? And then little by little

684
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:16.960
they look for clever ways to deny coverage but carry

685
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:20.079
it back to actual care. And let media say it

686
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:23.880
this way. If I had been successful upfront when my

687
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:28.760
wife was ill and had been allowed to pay, I

688
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:30.840
could have taken them into court and they'd a lost

689
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.960
because it was definitely necessary health care promise, not that

690
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:38.360
theiry health care. They have no right to deny it,

691
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:42.480
and a jury would have given me the verdict. They

692
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:47.119
know that they can't afford to have this go into court.

693
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:50.199
So why is there not And maybe there is and

694
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:52.039
we just haven't talked about it yet. Why is there

695
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:53.440
no pushback?

696
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:56.280
Nobody knows to push back.

697
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.159
Like you're dealing with companies. You're bringing awareness to this

698
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.360
show and others. You're telling me, you're telling you know

699
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:08.079
thousands of people listening and watching at some point. It's

700
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:11.639
a ground swell, and you haven't experienced any pushback yet.

701
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:16.599
I I'm gonna say it this way. I think if

702
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:20.840
we try to fix the system, we're just we're wasting

703
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:27.719
our time. I'm focused on helping you and your individually

704
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.159
fix it themselves, because the laws are still there. The

705
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:33.440
doctor still works for me. I don't care who pays

706
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:37.440
him the losses. He's mine, Okay. And I've never found

707
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.760
a doctor yet that when I reminded Dame of of

708
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:41.360
that didn't appreciate it.

709
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:41.960
Yeah.

710
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:45.039
And when I remind them that I of the payment

711
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:48.480
and the system and I don't know what the insurer

712
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:52.599
fails to pay, they know and appreciate it because that's

713
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:57.480
the system they're working in. Okay. So they don't like

714
00:41:57.559 --> 00:41:59.320
this system any better than you do.

715
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.079
Yeah, just going to say, I've had conversations with doctors

716
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:04.280
and nurses and providers and they don't like the system.

717
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:10.199
No. And by and large, they're not directly tied to

718
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:14.039
the payment. They're working for a much larger company and

719
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.480
have nothing to do with the billing. They're just giving

720
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.719
you there fifteen minutes of time and on to the

721
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:24.599
next and to show you how disconnected they are. Doctors

722
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:28.039
used to aim for something like eight hundred patients. They're

723
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:33.199
now being asked to service three thousand. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

724
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:35.360
I'm an engineer and I was suppressed.

725
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:36.639
Yeah, that math doesn't really work.

726
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:39.239
You give me three thousand projects that I'm going to leave.

727
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:41.639
Yeah, and that's happening.

728
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.519
Oh yeah, it's happened. And that's when the doctor comes

729
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.079
in and knows, you know, better than what's in the

730
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:52.079
on his flat screen on his laptop. But there's no

731
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:54.599
way he could know three thousand patients and know you,

732
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:58.079
you know, individually, and what's really Yeah, you know, one

733
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.320
last quick commenty here, Yeah, we're talking about AI. Think

734
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.440
of AI. How do you know who made the decision?

735
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.480
If you're using AI? I now know that if my

736
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:13.519
doctor makes a decision of what I need, it's him.

737
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:17.199
Look to him. He's responsible, just like an engineer. If

738
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.599
I build a bridge and put my name. If AI

739
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:23.840
makes a decision, who do we look to for the decision?

740
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:26.159
Great point, let's hope it doesn't come to that.

741
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:29.599
It's huge. I mean, you can't say, well the software

742
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:33.119
did it. Somebody at least an r system of law

743
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:36.440
has to be responsible for putting their name on the

744
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:40.119
document and computer. And by the way, there was a

745
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:43.159
period of my time when I designed computer systems. Anyway,

746
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:51.119
it's once systems get that complicated, you cannot understand the mind,

747
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:55.519
cannot understand how we got here. So anybody that would

748
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:58.519
sign for the decision made on made I under an

749
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:02.400
AI system their mind because they'd have no idea how

750
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:08.679
we got there. So, by and large you asked me back,

751
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:14.519
why am I doing this? I have the information. I'm

752
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:17.960
just not somebody to bury it. I've done my best

753
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.119
to share it. I really do mean, I'm not writing

754
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:25.199
another book. I've had it fortunately, the Consumer Production Protection

755
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:31.159
Viewer and the Fardet Collection Practices Act, and the studies

756
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:33.760
that have been shown where hospital bills are so much

757
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:38.119
at error, and there's a real issue about bankruptcy across

758
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:38.719
the nation.

759
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.400
With healthcare, and well you said earlier, but I've heard

760
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:45.880
it elsewhere. It's just medical bills are the number one

761
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:47.440
cost exactly.

762
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.400
And I'm just hoping that the information I have in

763
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:57.079
the book is significant enough to help the individual deal

764
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.559
with this really very very large problem. Is trying to

765
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.199
solve the overall problem is that's too It's just too

766
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:04.960
big a shift to me.

767
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:09.719
Yeah, as much as they tried a number of years ago. Yes,

768
00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:13.480
Obama administration, and even if we said they had the

769
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:17.079
right intentions, well I think they made it worse.

770
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.159
Obama had the same problem you and I are just discussing.

771
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:25.960
Obama is not insurance. Obamacare is simply the requirement that

772
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:27.119
you buy insurance.

773
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:30.639
I'm the marketplace, Yeah, policies.

774
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.199
In other words, he fell back instead of trying to

775
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.119
go for Medicare or whatever, a government model, he simply

776
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:41.519
adopted a model where you buy private insurance off the

777
00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:46.440
marketplace or get it from your employer. Well, they ignored

778
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.440
the problem that we're discussing, or that it's in my book.

779
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:52.440
And I don't think I would bet heavy money he

780
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:56.400
didn't know it. People who have signed, you know, for

781
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:00.280
the legislation so forth. I'll bet you heavy money do

782
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:06.159
not know the way that that care is being denied.

783
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:10.440
There's the actual lynchpin in the system. And the lynchpin

784
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:13.280
is that they've able to deny all payment, which, by

785
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.039
the way, I can if you have more time, I

786
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:19.239
tell you, I give you great proof how it's not

787
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:22.119
only unconstitutional, but the states have gone way out of

788
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:27.440
the way to try to hide it. They cannot deny

789
00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:30.079
us the right to pay for our own healthcare. And

790
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:33.320
so the issue is so big and they've done it

791
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:36.360
that if you raise it in a simple little letter

792
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:40.800
under the Fardet Collection Practices Act, they had no place

793
00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:43.559
to go. I'm going to say it this way. The

794
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:44.960
emperor has no clothes.

795
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:50.519
Well, I bought the book twenty bucks delivered from Amazon.

796
00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:51.760
Is that the best place to find it?

797
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:54.800
Well, if you go to either killerbill dot com it

798
00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:56.880
tells a QR code, it'll take you there. Or you

799
00:46:56.920 --> 00:47:00.480
can go to Amazon and ask for it my name

800
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:04.280
or the killer bill dot yeah under the big lie

801
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.159
to your healthcare vital healthcare bill, but the name of

802
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.079
the book or killibill dot com on the website. That

803
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:12.960
both will take you there. And by the way, somebody

804
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:16.320
comes up with an explanation where I'm wrong, Yeah, I

805
00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:17.079
welcome it.

806
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:21.199
Challenge has put out there. The gallet's been dropped. So

807
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:25.480
two questions, who in the listening and viewing audiences may

808
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:26.519
want to reach out to you?

809
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:26.960
And why?

810
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:32.280
Number one? Who you say, who watching or listening may

811
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:35.280
want to reach out to you? And why?

812
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:40.079
I think it's the individual. Yeah, because I originally thought

813
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:42.559
professionals would want to do it, and they are so

814
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:49.639
tied in the system, yeah, financially and whatever, they don't

815
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.199
want to touch it. I mean I really thought I

816
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.679
was an engineer. I would have read it simply out

817
00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:00.760
of intellectual curiosity within my own professional Okay, I don't

818
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.559
find that to be the case. The people who are

819
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:06.239
closest to it don't want to touch us with a

820
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:06.920
ten foot poll.

821
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:10.679
Well, there's no good answer to your point of the system, right,

822
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.440
no good answer there. So to your point again, goes

823
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:16.719
to the individual to take care of themselves.

824
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:23.719
Short of really retooling the whole thing, rewriting it, restructuring it,

825
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.840
there's not you know, but there can be a solution

826
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:31.000
for the individual. And eventually, like most things in the

827
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:34.039
United States, money brings solutions.

828
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:34.639
Yeah, it does.

829
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.360
And if enough of us put our hand up and

830
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.239
ask a couple of questions, they'll have to address it

831
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:43.400
and we'll sit down probably come up with a solution.

832
00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:45.079
Well, that's why I want to get this word out.

833
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:47.119
I know it's grassroots, I know it's a long slog,

834
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.719
but getting this message out is important. It also speaks

835
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.559
to your entrepreneurial entrepreneurial nature. By the way, thank you

836
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:56.960
for serving for twenty more than twenty years twenty two

837
00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.360
years in the Navy. Appreciate that he is. His name

838
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.400
is Frank Lob. The website is killbill dot com. You

839
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:07.079
can reach him there and you can also reach him

840
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:09.800
at his phone two six seven four four six three

841
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:12.559
eight two six Frank, we're out of time. Thank you

842
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:14.320
so much for being I really appreciate it.

843
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.079
I do too. I really appreciated this and enjoyed the

844
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:18.039
discussion seriously.

845
00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:21.559
Thank you and thanks everybody for watching and listening this.

846
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:25.800
This is a show about business and business challenges. This

847
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.440
one happens to be personal. If you have concerns though

848
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.119
about the sales effectiveness of your company, whether your sales

849
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:32.960
team is you are very small or it's very large,

850
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:35.519
feel free to reach out to me on Facebook or

851
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:38.079
LinkedIn at Winning Business Radio. Drop me a note if

852
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:40.400
you want. One of my many email addresses is Kevin

853
00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:44.559
at Winning Business Radio dot com. Our company is Winning Incorporated.

854
00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:47.199
We are part of Sandler Training. We develop sales teams

855
00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:51.480
into high achievers and sales leaders into true coaches and mentors. Hey,

856
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.239
we're not right for everybody, but maybe we should have

857
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.840
a conversation. Thank you, as always to one producer and

858
00:49:56.920 --> 00:49:59.679
engineer extreme for another job well done. Be sure to

859
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:02.639
join us next week that's Monday, April twenty. First my

860
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:06.280
ghost would be longtime friend and author John Katie. He's

861
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:09.679
authored several books, including the new young adult urban fantasy

862
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:13.480
novel series Angela of Death. Until then, this is Kevin Helen.

863
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:18.760
You've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host,

864
00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:21.920
Kevin Helene. If you missed any part of this episode,

865
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:26.199
the podcast is available on Top four Podcasting and iHeartRadio.

866
00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:30.360
For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio

867
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:33.519
dot com or check us out on social media. Tune

868
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:35.599
in again next week and every Monday at four pm

869
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:39.159
Eastern Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on

870
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:43.639
W four CY Radio w fourcy dot com. Until then,

871
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:47.639
let's succeed where others have failed and win in business

872
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:51.880
with Kevin Helenan and Winning Business Radio.