John Kowanetz - founder of Pathways Coaching & Consulting & Author of Life Without Crutches

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements radio show, programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability explicitor implied shall be extended to W four CY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Kevin helen n believes that certainly applies to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com and now your host, Kevin Helena. Thanks for joining in again today. I'm Kevin Hallanan and welcome back to Winning Business TV and Radio on W four C dot com, streaming live on talkfour tv dot com in addition to Facebook at Winning Business Radio as well as of course, we're available in podcasts after the live show on tons of outlets including YouTube, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, pretty much wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. The mission of this show winning business radio and TV, as regular listeners and viewers know, is to offer insights and advice to help people avoid the mistakes of others, right to learn best practices, the how tos, the what toos,

1:30 the what not tos, to be challenged, and certainly to be inspired by the successes of others. But you know, as I say every week, virtually every successful person I've ever had a chance to talk to has had some form of failure in their lives and careers. So while we all have to get our knees skinned once in a while, I'm driven to keep those scrapes from needing major surgery. Let's endeavor to learn from history, our own, usually, so we don't have to repeat it today. My guest is John Covenant's founder and principle of Pathways Coaching and Consulting, public speaker excuse me, an author of Life Without Crutches. Here's his bio. John Covenants is the lead pathfinder for Pathways Coaching and Consulting. He works with business owners and individuals who want to grow past where they are. He helps them recapture the enjoyment and confidence that they'll succeed after many have approached, if not experienced burnout.

2:20 John is a born entrepreneur, having tested out many of his ideas and inventions certain in the first two decades of his life. His first official begin business, excuse me, began in the two car garage of his Mesa, Arizona home, when he launched Handcrafted car Audio in July of two thousand and seven. As John tells it, back then, he had absolutely no idea what it would take to grow a business or where that path might lead him. All he knew was that he loved the work and had become his passion and livelihood over the past seven years. That he wanted to do it on his own for his community in a way that nobody else was And it was that drive to be unique, to be the best, and to serve others that fueled the slow and steady growth that created a solid foundation upon which he built a multiple award winning business over that next fifteen years before selling it profitably in August of twenty twenty two. Handcrafted was profitable in fourteen of those fifteen years, nine of which saw more than a ten percent year over year net profit increase, provided for the families of some of the best in the industry, tarret of near five star rating on every platform, and was proudly described by money clients as not the cheapest, but the best in the valley. However, it was the lessons that he learned during that time that were more important.

3:29 Setting a business up for success from the start with proper policies and procedures, empowering employees to operate with autonomy, achieving company goals their own way, but within a defined framework. Lessons about the efficacy of properly qualifying new customers, ensuring that their problems were solved satisfactorily and for a price that's fair to both parties. At last, but far from least, the critical lessons of taking the time to organize the books, optimize net profit, and leverage both tangible and intangible assets to maximize the overall value of the business. But the story goes on. John had business success, but had become emotionally disconnected, overweight and hungover, and found himself reading divorce papers that he had just been served. Like so many others that had come before him, he had poured so much of himself into his building, into building his professional life, that there was little energy left to sustain a healthy personal life, and so it's slowly decayed in the years that have passed since then, He's lost and kept off the extra sixty pounds that his bad habits had kept on for so long.

4:30 He worked with family therapists and AA to figure out why he had been turning to alcohol to solve life problems in the first place. He's rebuilt relationships with his daughter, family and friends that had withered through disconnection. John's a father of one, a lover of music, a climber of mountains, a speaker and writer. Realizing his childhood dreams. John now writes and speaks about his experiences from the stage at events across North America, combining decades of professional retail sales and customer service experience with self test did methods for personal improvement, and an undying dream to be a rock star. I love that John's engagements are educational, enlightening, entertaining, and empowering, leaving attendees wanting and able to change their professional and personal lives. I met John while I was speaking at an industry event. He was as well, and in fact, some of you may recall that I had John on this program as a guest.

5:17 Back in the fall of twenty nineteen, we had a really good conversation which some of you may want to go back and listen to. Since the writing of his book Life Without Crutches, I wanted to give him the opportunity to tell us about the life, his life and journey and the lessons that caused him to share his compelling and deeply personal story. John, Welcome back to Winning Business Radio now Winning Business TV as well. Thank you man. That was awesome. I was just sitting there like listening to you recite that whole thing, and it was very powerful and invigorating and reaffirming, you know, for a lot of things I've been thinking about lately, on all the things I've been doing so well, I'm glad. I'm glad I tweaked it slightly, but everything's true. I noticed. But Hey, that's that's all good.

6:03 I think that you know me well enough to be able to do something like that, and it's all good. All right. So let's get some background. Tell everybody where you grew up. Where I grew up, Gilbert, Arizona, Gilbert, Averzona and it's just a suburb of Phoenix, Okay, And how did you get into the twelve old industry or car audio is we like to call it for listeners to understand and viewers to understand. How did you get into that business and how to become a passion? I mean, I got into the business because I got my first car when I was about fifteen years old. I bought it a little bit prior to you know, being able to legally drive, so that I could make it mine, fix it up a little bit, and one of the first things I did to it was have a sound system put into it. Of course, the car couldn't even reliably shift out of second year all the time. But I had sub offers, you know, because music is life, and I always loved music one hundred percent. The two passions of mine have always been music and tinkering with things. I was that kid that would like take things apart just to see how they work, you know. So I got music, I got sub offers in the car, and then when I had to get rid of that car because of the eventually didn't go into second year at all, I removed that stuff from the vehicle myself installed in my next vehicle and realized I can do this, and then I started doing it. For friends and family, and next thing, you know, I got a job at like a local shop in town when I was a teenager and just kind of took off from there. I got more like my position grew from there,

7:39 from an entry level installer to a full time installer to a supervisor manager. And I worked as a working at dealerships, you know, installing products on cars on dealership lots. I worked at custom shops, I worked at big box stores. I did everything, really, every role that you could really imagine in the industry I did. And then I would say that my passion for it was it was never about cars. I'm not a car person. I don't really care about cars very much. It was about music. It was about the fabrication. It was about the difficulty of making it all come together and recreating good, high quality music in a difficult environment like a car.

8:24 But the real passion for it really came when I started Handcrafted in two thousand and seven, because then it was like, not only am I am I using all of my skills to recreate music in a car and overcome the challenges that that entails. Now I'm using all my skills to build a business that does that and all the challenges that that entails, and that's really where the passion came into play for sure, And I've seen a couple of them. Your company, Handcrafted became an award winning retail shop us about you know how it felt to achieve that level of success and then you ended up selling that business and tell us the why behind that? Well, how long you got we have an hour? I know, I know what. There's a lot to talk about. It's a lot to unpack that I want to get through as most as much of it as we can. But I'll be brief.

9:20 I'll be brief. So the awards, what it felt like to win the awards pretty incredible. We won several over the course of the fifteen years that we were in business. The first one was very meaningful for me. That was an award called Installer of the Year. It was very meaningful for me because I actually I've won that and was awarded that at a show that I wasn't able to be present for because my daughter had just recently been born and she had to have open heart surgery when she was seven days old. So actually the night of the awards ceremony was the night before her surgery, so I've there was no way I was going to go to the awards ceremony.

10:01 So one of my friends named Todd, recently passed away, accepted the award on my behalf. So it was really really touching and one of those things that came at a moment when like I really needed a boost, you know. So that was really good. We won Retailer of the Year, which was really important to me. That one was three years later in twenty thirteen. That was really important to me because that was like a team effort that was like all of us, what we built, you know, what we did. We won an award for most Improved Location, which is great because we did a lot of work to make that happen. So the awards, there were some other ones there. The awards were a really nice, well timed every single time. It was like a well timed award to show, hey, you're doing something good, you know, and and we as an industry recognize that you're doing something good and we want to show you you know that that's the case. So it was powerful. I still have them.

11:01 I have the awards up in my office and you know, I displayed them proudly. So what was behind the successful I might add sale of your company. So that was that was something that was a couple of years in the in the making, and you touched on in the intro there. You touched on my personal development and all the things that I went through to that end. And when I started doing those things, my appreciation and my enjoyment of my life just amplified, and I started finding all kinds of other things that I was that I was passionate about as well, and I found myself being drawn in different directions than I had been, you know, for the previous I don't know, eight nine, ten, eleven, twelve years of owning that business, and it came to a point where I had had the thought for a good couple of years that like, I think it's time to get out of this. I think it's time to do something else. I want to try something new. I had been doing car audio for like half my life by the time I sold that business. So when I when I eventually did, it was a mixture of wanting to move on to something else, the timing being right, finding a buyer, and it just was one of those things where it was like I remember, I remember thinking about it and and trying to decide is this what I want to do? And I remember thinking, there's there's a fork in the road, you know, There's there's two paths that I can take from here. One is either continue on with this business the way that I have been. The other one is to

12:33 go on into something that I don't even know what it is yet. I don't know, I don't know where that leads. But one thing I know for sure is that continuing on with this business that I'm in now is not going to get me to where I want to be. Right So once I came to that conclusion, it was a pretty easy decision to go forward. And so the way I put it is, it seems something like you had an old new passion that's helping others through your life lessons, an old new passion, like you found that passion, But it's not something that was a new idea to you. Oh no, no, definitely not because I had been doing I see what you mean now. I had been doing public speaking and classes and stuff like that at industry events for eight nine years prior to COVID, you know, so I've had a lot of experience and time in helping other people. Yes, all right, we're going to talk about some of the key moments in your life that you reference in the book. And this is where I want to dig in. But we're at believe it or not, We right our first break. We're going to be back in just about a minute with John Covenants. Stay tuned. You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com. Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up right here on Winning Business Radio. Have you ever dreamt of being on the radio,

14:03 Well, now it's your chance be a radio show guest on the number one ranked internet radio station and promote you and your business for free. Yes you heard it, Free business advertising right here on W four cy dot com. Call five six one five zero six four zero three to one now to get booked on one of our shows. That's five six one five zero six four zero three to one. Get your free advertising now. And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helena, presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again it is Kevin Helena. We're back with John covenants. The book is Life Without Crutches.

14:56 First, John, where's this book available? So it's available on Amazon. It's also available on the website, which is Life Without Crutches dot com. Life Without Crutches dot com excellent. So I don't know how many of these we even have time for. There are so many seminal moments that you reference. Your parents' divorce, being a twelve year old seeking approval from, as you call it, the bad kids, the family reunion on Long Island, upping the ante when you got home, the house parties. I mean, there's just so much stuff that to you. You felt that strongly enough to write about it, and it's pretty compelling. Take us through some of that in terms of how by the way, yeah, by the way, I don't want to dramatize the negative stuff I want to talk about, right, it all fits. It's your story. So take us through some of those most important moments that people will read when they get the book, and some of the most important moments in terms of how they contributed to where that path led to. Right, I mean, I think the uh, the the most important aspect of all of it is was the underlying current of what each one of those the itch that each one of those events scratched, you know, which was that that that underlying need for to be noticed, acceptance, approval, all that type of stuff. And that really was one of

16:29 the one of the beautiful things about about going through all of that and doing the therapy and you know, going through AA and all that type of stuff is the way that it really requires you to really dig in deep to who you are and what happened and where that came from. And one of the things that I really realized after going through all of that is just the effect that you noted on there my parents' divorce, and it's something so common, right, so many of us go through that, and I think one of the one of the major UH delineate factors in how in the effect that that has one way or the other on the kids of divorce is how well it is explained to them. And so for me, where being so young, I was only seven years old and it happened, there was there was there wasn't the ability within my family to have that kind of conversation. And you talked about some of the confusion that you experienced. Yeah, yeah, so you know, you don't know all you know, is your family is now separated, and you know, you don't know why. No one ever, no one ever had the ability to explain, here's what happened, and here's why it happened, and so that I could make sense of it, you know, So then you kind of draw your own conclusions, you know.

17:37 And what anybody will tell you is that a child of divorce, especially a very young child of divorce, is always going to assume it's because of them, you know. And uh, and as I grew, you know, as I as I got older, and I recognize I remember events in my life that made me feel at that time. I've got a different perspective on it now, but at that time made me feel that I'm not good enough unless I'm something more than what I am. So there's always this desire to be something more than what I am, to get this approval that I had been lacking. So whether that was like I said in the book, like starting smoking with the bad kids, you know, or yeah, mowing the parties at my house, you know, Like my mom was a single mom.

18:19 She was working herself day and night to keep us in that house. And there I was throwing these like wild parties, because to me, what that was was all the other kids thought that I was cool because I was able to give them this place where they could hang out and have good time and whatever. So it just fed that that need and it scratched that itch of like, finally you're getting that, getting the attention and approval that you were looking for before. All the while you're having other success, right, but you just you weren't healthy, you weren't satisfied, you weren't whole on the inside. Uh, how did your could you talk about it? How did your you got arrested for duy? Yes? Right, talk about the impact that that had with regard to your parents. M that was so that that happened when I was twenty three. By the way, at twenty three, you were making really good money. You had a good job, you had you were a homeowner. Yes I was. Yeah, So I had moved out of my parents' house pretty pretty shortly after after becoming an adult.

19:25 I'm fortunate in that I was always able to command a high wage, you know, for my skills, So I was I was grateful in being able to do that and being able to move out and start my life and buy a house and all that type of stuff, and I was I was led by by smart people to make those kinds of decisions, So very grateful for that. But yeah, yeah, I had a lot of really good things going on, and I was building a lot of stuff, and things seemed to be going very very well. But there was still that having having spent all of my teenage years, you know, the event that you referenced in Long Island at my grandparents house that happened when I was thirteen, Right, So my first drink ever was when I was thirteen, and from then on it just kind of became a regular thing to where it was like, this is just how you live, This is just how you navigate life. It wasn't a question of, oh, I'm having a bad day, or oh something happened, I need a conscious decision to you know what, I'm just going to have a drink. It was just what I just did. It became normal. So by that time, even though I was having all these things, all these successful, you know, ventures in life and starting a family and all that kind of stuff, there was still that that habit.

20:37 It just became a part of the way that I lived life. So when it eventually caught up to me and I got arrested for DUI and I had to deal with all of that, and I had to go and do the tense city thing in Phoenix where you know they make you sleep outside and in tents in the middle of the summer, and own up to that with my with my family and my parents. It was it was a major It was a major gut check and a major a major blow to the ego, uh for sure, But I don't know that it it clearly it didn't. It wasn't enough to be right the end of that, I kept going and there was another one another d u I. Oh so well that that one actually was the second one. That's the second one, Oka, Yeah, when I was twenty three. That was the second one. The first one was I as a teenager. That one was Wow, we're really going back here.

21:33 Yeah, So that one was when I was seventeen. That one was actually not for alcohol. That was for marijuana. Oh okay, yeah, but that one, so that that one did have that one did have a very big impact between me and my parents because that was when I was a teenager. That was when I was still living at home, and that was one of those moments where from that point on that did draw a line in the sand, and I had never done drugs ever again from there because it was like this, this moment where I realized, this is where this type of behavior leads you, and when you do these things that are dangerous and careless about not only yourself and your other people, this is where you end up, but also this is the effect that has on other people. To see the way that it affected my parents and my siblings and everything like that.

22:18 But what I always thought was very interesting, and I wrote about in the book as well, is that it was easy to come to that conclusion about something so back then illegal as drugs, but alcohol is a different thing because of the way alcohol is so readily accessible and celebrated and legal. It's just normal. Like it's like if you go out and you don't drink, it's almost weird in some ways, you know, And it's just so easily accessible. So it was interesting to me when I stopped, and I once I did quit, you know, and I stopped, and I looked back on those times in my life. As I was writing the book, I remember coming to the realization like, this is so strange that at seventeen when I got caught driving while stoned and I went through all that, I was like, well, I'm done with that, never doing that again. But alcohol, Nope, that just wasn't the same thing. And it was just a very interesting, just a position. So you mentioned that some of these events they certainly shaped who you are, but to your point just now, they weren't. Some of these what others might consider rock bottom events or certainly negative events, didn't change the negative behavior that you would continued in. Right as you described it. You purchased now your another home, new girlfriend became your wife, baby girl, and as you mentioned, open heart surgery.

23:48 No, it's fault, just a abnormality, right, And she's flourishing today. I know that because I've talked to you. But you found that you were numbing your emotions in your pain. You got to the point where your marriage was failing, uh, and divorce and a realization that things needed to change. M hm. Take us to that moment. Yeah, So it's it's like a I've come to realize. And one of the things that I talk a lot about in my I do a class at at industry events called cast Off the Crutches and it's a play on the words of the book obviously, and the intention there is to share my story and then to help people to identify what their own struggles are and their own bad habits and behaviors that they want to overcome, and then share with them the steps that I took to do it to try to, you know, help them overcome their own bad habits and behaviors. Right. So, what I've learned in having done that is that more times than not, you have to we we learned the biggest lessons from our biggest losses and and and the most pain, you know.

24:53 So what happened was that as each one of those events took place, it was easy for me to say, Okay, well, that was an isolated event that happened one time. I'm not going to have to pay that price again, you know, the DUI paid, the fines I did, the jail time, that was done. I wasn't going to have to do that again. When my daughter went through a heart surgery, thing that was done one time, and I didn't have to do that again. All these other things, it was so easy to come up with excuses for why that wasn't it wasn't enough of an impetus to change. But when somebody looks at you and says you are not good enough anymore, and I don't want you in my life anymore, and I am going to legally separate myself from you.

25:37 And in doing so, you're losing the house you know that you lived in. You're losing half the time that you get to spend with your daughter, You're losing all these different things. For me, that was the point where I really there. There is no more running from it. There's no more ways to sugarcoat it or not take account of it for it. This is full on. This is because of what you do and the way that you are that all these things are happening to you. And so that, in addition to the fact that I had now become a single father, which I had never planned to do, and I was now responsible for this little girl's quality of life for half of her life the time that she was with me, it was just one of those things where it was like, no more, it's it's time to change. You cannot do this anymore. I reached my rock bottom, like I think most people need to do. Now you're what's the what's the word? I didn't even want to use. I'm not sure if even substances, because it's not always a substance your crutch, Yeah, was alcohol. There are lots of other kinds of crutches. Indeed, talk about some of those, oh man, and and and that's you know what's so incredible, you know, you know when you look back on things and you see the steps that it took to get to where you're at now, and when you were on that step, you had no idea where it was going to leave. But then when you look back on it in retrospect, it makes so much sense. And when I wrote that book, I know I talked about these other these other crutches and the way that they

27:08 play, but I was so it was I was so aware of what my own one was. That like that was the that was really the the crux of it, you know, that was like the that was that was the big one right in my mind. And in the years that have passed since then, and in the workshops that I've done and people that I've talked to, and I've watched people struggle with other things, legitimately struggle with these things, it's it's opened my mind so much to to the many ways that people can become afflicted and and uh cause them to be completely distracted from their life.

27:49 And it's things as as dangerous as alcohol and drugs and gambling, you know, things like that. But then it can also be things as simple as social media and too much TV. And it all sounds so trite, you know, like we all we all talk about we're on our phones too much and d da da da da da. But what we don't talk about enough is what is happening underneath it. All we talk about is put your phone down, be present in the moment. And it's like, yeah, that's great advice, and it's something that you really should do. But what we don't address enough is what it is that's underlying the surface that makes you feel like you have to do that in the first place. That's what really needs to be addressed. And so for me, one of the most powerful things about this whole experience for me was that moment when for me, quitting drinking was just getting rid of the substance. It was just it was stopping doing the thing that numbed away the emotions, yeah, the good and the bad, but it wasn't doing anything to actually solve the problem. It was just taking away the substance. So what can happen A lot of times you may see this. If you see somebody quit one thing, they take on something else is move on to a new addiction. But when I, and when I've seen other people get to the bottom of what was actually driving that behavior, no matter what the addiction is, that's where a real change happens.

29:15 All right, that's exactly where I want to go. We're going to take our second break right now. We'll be back in just about a minute with John Covens. You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helenet on W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com. Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up right here on Winning Business Radio. The yp dot com website is your local search engine. If you're looking for a good restaurant, it can help you find the right one nearby with ratings and reviews. Or if your car breaks down, you can use the yp app to find the closest repair shop. Or maybe you're just looking for something to do on a Friday night. Well, it has great local coupons for all sorts of things in your area. No matter what, when or where.

30:03 If you're looking for something, YP Local Search can help you find it. So go to yp dot com or download the app to search local, find local, and save local. And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene, presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again is Kevin Helene. Okay, we're back with John Covenant's, author of Life Without Crutches. Also, I love this, by the way, lead pathfinder for Pathways coaching and consulting, touch on, touch on your consulting company. You're coaching in consulting company? Oh man, that is again I was talking about It wasn't really a play on words. It's just this is just a part of me right when I was talking about the path that leads you are now, it's just so like coming to that was just a natural evolution of me. I think because I had been doing the public speaking like I was talking about before, and doing the classes at industry events for a long time, you know, before selling my business, before selling my first business, and so when I was thinking about what I wanted to do next, I was I knew that what I wanted to do was something that I could do anywhere right, and I wanted to be able to do something that had more of a direct impact on other people

31:34 in the quality of their lives, because I didn't feel like, you know, I loved installing audio systems and everything that we did at Handcrafted, but I just want to do something that I felt left a better legacy, I guess maybe a way of saying. So when I when I sold Handcrafted and I started thinking about what else it was that I wanted to do, I was actually I took a a break. I went a little sabbatical after that happened, and I was hiking up in Canada and I had this thought, this vision, this I was led to see what it was that I was supposed to be doing, and for me, it was always trying to help other people, you know, in those classes and in the public speaking.

32:22 I love getting up there. I loved talking to people. I love sharing my experiences. I loved what it said in the in the beginning of this show when you were talking about how the voiceover was saying helping people to learn from other people's experiences. That's been like my whole motivation and everything I've done for a long time. So when I was on that hike and I was thinking about what it is that I want to do next with my life. This is like chapter two. I got really clear on this idea that I had that I had called hiking therapy. Like years ago, I had this idea of hiking therapy because I just a avid hiker. When you go out into nature. Every time I go out there, I get clear on things, I figure stuff out. When I go with other people, we have conversations, everybody comes back feeling better. Right, It's like therapy for free.

33:10 So I just have this idea. In like twenty seventeen, I had this idea that, like I should do hiking therapy. And then when I was on this hiking Canada, it just got more clear and more clear and more clear, and I realized that what I want to do because of who I am. I'm a born entrepreneur, you know, like it's just the way my mind works. I'm constantly thinking about things that I can do, and so I, as we know, because what we've talked about, I went through that whole process of being an entrepreneur and building a business, and I lost myself to it. I lost myself in multiple different ways like so many people do. And I had to fight back to get back my balance and my health and my relationships. And part of that was due to the alcohol, like we talked about, but it's due to that for so many other people as well. So I'm so I'm so keyed into the to the sacrifice that is required by a business owner or a business leader to get to where they want to go. And I'm so keyed into what it feels like to get there and look around you and be like, where is everybody?

34:13 You know? Why do I feel as badly as I do? So the goal, the mission of what I'm trying to do with Pathways is to help business leaders recover the life that they sacrifice in pursuit of their career. And for me, Pathways was just like it was just a natural progression because it's everything I love about what I've done. I take photos of Pathways. They catch my eye when I'm out in nature and I see something. It's just it's just a thing for me. So it just fit together very well. And when I start thinking about it along those lines on that hike in Canada, I realized my intention in what I'm doing here is to help you and your business get to where you want to go from where you are now and help you find a pathway to do that. That's awesome, Thank you.

35:00 There is contact information. There is contact information for John. We'll give you a chance to reach out to him. You begin to make changes, you begin to identify the problem. And what I think is really cool about this book is that, as I said earlier, it's not a glorification of the of the junk. It's really a guide to help others identify what their problems are and make some changes. So you start with I'm gonna point we've got several things to go through, and I'll just kind of drop a thought and you go ahead. How you talk about how to identify the problem? How do you help people identify the problem? First of all, I want to say that you're absolutely right. The whole purpose of that book is too is not to glorify the bad things it's too. It's to I tell my story to help other people try to identify themselves within it so that they can they can feel more comfortable owning whatever it is that they're that they're going through.

35:57 So to help them to identify what the what the problem really is something that we do in the workshops and something I do one on one when I'm working with people. But the truth of the matter is that you know, you know, they know, we all know what is really holding us back. We know what that thing is. Either people have said something to us about it, We've paid prices for it, you know, like me with the DUI, Like I knew what the problem was. You know, my ex wife, she would complain about it, so I knew what the problem was. We just had this clever way of telling ourselves it's not really a problem. So really, the process of helping somebody to find out what their actual problem is is when I'm doing a presentation and I'm talking about it and I'm sharing this story and there and they're they're in it and they're thinking about their own life, it's what are you thinking about right now? What's in your head right now? And that's the thing, And then you dig a little bit deeper in there, because there's always something a little bit more underneath that.

36:55 But that first thought that you have, that that thing that you that you instant want to run away from, that's the thing that you need to focus on. And then you talk about how to identify how life could be without that particular crutch. That's kind of cool. God, I love that part. It's it's like, the number of times that I encounter the efficacy of this part of this thing is unfathomable. Literally just encountered it very recently. And so the whole idea behind that's so there's two steps that are kind of similar. The first one is how much worse could your life get if you don't get to handle on this? And the second part of that, the very next follow up part of it, is how much better could your life get if you do get a handle on this. And it's the idea there is to create polarity, you know, to pull you toward this better life and away from this worse life by getting super super clear on the reality.

37:54 Because the truth is that, especially with our lives the way that they are these days, and how distract and busy we are, it's so easy to to just to just write it off quickly, oh yeah, well, you know that sucks. I shouldn't be doing that anymore, and just leave it there, and you're not going to change anything with that kind of attitude. But if you can get really, really clear and honest with yourself about just how just how much worse things could get for you if you don't fix this, but then also how much better your life could get. It gives you something to push against, and it also gives you something to reach out for, you know, and I think that I know that when you are going through habit change and it's extremely difficult to not go back to where you were, those moments that you can those those those glimpses of a life without this thing are what you can hold on to for hope when those moments are hard. So I love that part. Well, what's cool to me too, is you help people figure out why they would want to change for themselves, not because you or somebody else is trying to tell them to do it right. People change for their own reasons, and that's that's why I think that's really powerful. Then you help people identify why that negative behavior has continued, you know, sort of the root cause M Yeah, that's that's critical.

39:17 That's like what I was saying before. You know, you can take away the substance all you want, and you're likely just going to find something else to get addicted to. It's not until you uncover the reason why you turned to that substance in the first place, that you're going to actually ever really be free from it. Otherwise you just kind of you're always living your life running. And you know, something that was really powerful for me along this journey was, you know, I went through AA and I had quit drinking for like, I don't know, three months or so before I step putting an AA room. I didn't need AA to stop drinking. Maybe it was even it was six months. Actually I didn't need AA to keep me from drinking. And that's just me, not you know, yeah, not just crediting the system at all. I didn't need it. What I did need it for was to figure out why. And once I did figure it out why, it was like the battle was over. Up until that moment, I felt like I was always I always had to like stay away from it, like no, like there I can't even be around that, you know, Like, But once I understood why I went that way and why I adopted this behavior in the first place, and I healed those wounds.

40:30 I say something in the in the book that like once there's when there's no more war to fight, there's no need for weapons. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, you know, you just put them down, put down the weapons, invite the monsters out. You know, you're not trying to beat them back into the shadows anymore. You know, you invite them out, bring them out into the light, see them for what they are, make peace with it, except all those parts about yourself, and once there's no no monster to be afraid of anymore than you know. That's powerful, thank you. Right Next, how to find the strength This is to me really important. How to find the strength to make that decision that that part comes in the sequential order of things purposefully, because it's like everything that we talk about up until that point is meant to make you really feel what you're what you're going through. And if I could have it my way, like if I was if I if I could do it exactly the way I wanted to do it, I would create like this like simulated life for you to experience with like a three D headset on or whatever virtual reality headset on, where you can literally feel and experience what this is going to be. You can experience your rock bottom in every visceral way possible. So yeah, right, wouldn't that be cool? Yeah? So, if I could if I could have my way, I would do that. Maybe one day I will, I don't know, figure that out somehow so that you can really feel

42:02 it. But for now, the best thing that you can do, the best thing I can think of to do, is to really dig in deep and get some substance to that. So all those questions that come before that are intended to really force you to get that substance, so that by the time you get to the point where it's time to make a decision, there's not really a decision to be made anymore. It's going to be so obvious that if you don't make this decision, you are literally choosing a life that is not going to serve you in any kind of good way. So that's really the biggest part of it. And then if you can't, if even that's not enough, honestly, and I'm just it's just the truth in my own experience and the experience of witnessing other people, you just playing not ready yet and you have to hurt more. And that sucks, but it's true.

42:53 And I think if most people, if they're willing to be honest with themselves and look at their own lives, they'll be able to look at many many, many times before they finally did quit something, before they finally lost the weight, before they finally quit drinking, before they finally decided to start reading more. Whatever the thing is, there were many times before then that they knew they should have done it, but they didn't do it until the point when it hurt them enough to say never again. So, if you're not ready to make the change yet after going through all of that stuff, you just need to hurt someone and then you'll be there. That is right. I think you're right there, right right. But then you also have the wisdom to put to suggest a support team. Yes, what's your advice for putting together a support team? That's critical and that's like something that's that's a big function of AA, you know, for people to be there and support you along your journey to sobriety. And so you know, you can use that as as a support team. You can use friends and family.

43:57 But I think the important thing that you have to pay attention to is who it is that you are enrolling to be a part of your support team to make sure that they are going to hold you accountable and be honest with you when when they see that you're you're you know, messing up and not doing not live in the way that you said that you want to live, but then also that they are living in a way that that that you aspire to or admire and some kind of should be somebody that is at a place that you want to get to, so that when you interact with them, they can see how they can help you, and you can see how you want to get to where they're at. But the most important thing is that we can't do this alone. You know, we we we can't. We're not meant to do much of anything alone long term. You know. We're tribal people, you know, we're meant to be in hurts, you know, and stuff and uh, and we have some things that we have to do on our own. And it's a very healthy thing to be able to be alone. But there's some things that you meet other people for and you should have other people for, and this is definitely one of them. There's a lot of work that needs to be done introspectively, you know. But times when you're feeling weak, or you're feeling stressed or like you need a hand, that's when these people that you've chosen ahead of time are the ones that you can reach out to and say, hey, man, I'm not doing well. You said you're going to be there for me. And it's so important with so many of these things that the support team, the boundaries,

45:30 the substitutions, you have to create these things ahead of time when you're in a good mindset, right after it made the decision that yes, I'm going to make sures you're feeling all good because we all know life is life, and there's going to come a time when you're not feeling good sooner than later, and it's going to test you. It's going to make you wonder can I stick to this? And in those moments of weakness is when you are tent, when you're going to be tempted to go back to the path of least resistance for relief and for your brain. That's going to be alcohol, drugs, TV, Facebook or whatever the thing is to take your mind away from what hurts. But if you've done the work ahead of time and you've said when this happens, I'm going to do this instead, you at least have a chance because you've made a plan for what you're going to do when that happens. And then even if you do fail. I just went through this and my advice was, it's not a failure, it's just a data point. People look at setbacks and going out and lapses and whatever as like well clock restarts, right, Yeah I failed, and no you didn't know you didn't You've You've got another data point that shows you that when I'm in these circumstances, when I'm feeling this way, here's what I do. Now you can create more substitutions and boundaries around that. Well. Interesting, we have about a minute talk about some healthy substitutions and boundaries. I mean, it depends on what your thing is, you know, like if you if it's a if it's a a diet thing, you know, like I had

47:01 that too, I incredibly unhealthy. So instead of having like a bag of candy on my toolbox at work, I would have a bag of almonds or something to that effects. Or if it's if it's a sedentary lifestyle, then your substitution is you know, disconnect to deactivate your your you know, Facebook, Netflix or whatever, whatever the thing is. It's about identifying the things that are are going to be a problem for you ahead of time and creating a plan to not have them become that problem for you. So for me, it was like I wouldn't hang out with certain people for a while while I was, you know, learning to get sober. I wouldn't go to certain places because it's just going to be an unnecessary trigger for me. Think about the opposite right of what your thing is, and let that be the thing. You go to. Something healthy. You know what's healthy. We all know what's healthy. You know you don't need to be hold that.

48:00 This is very good. Last question, who? And you can look at this from two perspectives, one perspective or the or the other or both. Who would the listening and viewing audiences should reach out to you? And why? Who would the who? Who in these listening and viewing audiences should reach out to you? And why? Oh? Gotcha? So, like I guess who who is a good fit for for Pathways if they want to? Right? Okay? Well, like I said before, the mission statement of Pathways is to help business leaders recover the life that they sacrifice in pursuit of their career. So the so the person who I'm who my particular skill set and experiences is most set up to help are business owners business leaders who've given everything that they've got to create this business or this this this career that they are succeeding in and it's doing well or or to some degree, you know, it's it's it's it's okay, but they've recognize that they've lost quality of life and not happy in this area and not happy in that area. Because what I do is a two pronged approach. There's the personal development side and the professional development side. So I work with you as an individual to help you to overcome whatever your self limiting beliefs are, your habits, your behaviors, all these things that are holding you back from being the most effective person in your personal life and your professional life. But then I also have a whole other side of the business that works on the business itself, how to be more profitable, less costly, more effective, more valuable if you ever

49:30 want to sell it one day, that type of thing. So you work on both of those separately, and then when they come together in the business, they can get to where they want to go. So the right person for me is somebody who is a business leader, has given a lot to where they're at and they want to get further. They have goals of where they want to reach and they're having a hard time reaching those because of personal and professional reasons. Cool. You've seen the contact information, John, We are out of time, sadly, this has been really cool. The book is Life Without Crutches, available on Amazon. John Covenants is the author. He's a lot more than the book, but get the book and thank you for being here. Really appreciate it. Thanks man, appreciate you, and thank you everybody for watching and listening. This is a show about business and business challenges, life challenges too. If you've got concerns about the growth of your company, feel free to reach out to me on Facebook or LinkedIn at Winning Business Radio. You can drop me a note, Bobby. The easiest email for now is Kevin at Winning Businessradio dot com. Our companies Winning Incorporated.

50:30 We're part of Sandler Training. We developed sales teams into high achievers and sales leaders into true coaches and mentors. We're not right for everybody, but maybe we should have a conversation. Thank you, producer to producer and engineer one for another job well done. Thank you one. Be sure to join us next week that's Monday, April eighth. We'll do it again with another interesting guest. Until then, this is Kevin Helenan you've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host, Kevin Helena. If you missed any part of this episode, the podcast is available on Talk for Podcasting and iHeartRadio. For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio dot com or check us out on social media. Tune in again next week and every Monday at four pm Eastern Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on W four CY Radio w four cy dot com. Until then, let's succeed where others have failed and win in business with Kevin Haleanan and Winning Business Radio