Feb. 2, 2026

John Bates - Salary Negotiation Expert, international Best-Selling Author of "Act Your Wage"

John Bates - Salary Negotiation Expert, international Best-Selling Author of "Act Your Wage"
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John Gates, Pay Negotiation Expert, Keynote Speaker and Best-Selling Author of “Act Your Wage”, joins Kevin to share his story.

As a Fortune 500 Head of Recruiting, John has overseen more than 75,000 job offers during his 30-year career.

As the creator of the Salary Coach Method John helps executives and job seekers confidently navigate offer conversations without risking the deal. His sessions blend sharp strategy with a calming, practical tone that clients love - and apply immediately.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability

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Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments

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should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for

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choosing W FOURCY Radio.

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Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are

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condemned to repeat it. Kevin Helenan believes that certainly applies

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to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at W

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four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com and

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now your host, Kevin Helena.

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Thanks everybody for joining in today. I am Kevin Hallan,

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and welcome back to Winning Business TV and Radio on

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W four cy dot com. We're streaming live on Talk

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the Number four talkfour tv dot com, and we're streaming

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streaming live on Facebook and at Winning Business at at

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Winning Business Radio, and of course we're available in podcasts

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after the Lime Live show. While I can't talk today

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wherever you get your podcast content, that's YouTube, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple.

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The mission of Winning Business radio and TV, as regular

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viewers and listeners know, is really to offer insights and

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advice to help people avoid the mistakes of others, to

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learn best practices.

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Those are the how tos, the what.

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Tos, the what not tos, to be challenged and hopefully

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to be inspired by the successes of others. Who are

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those others consultants, coaches, advisors, authors, founders and owners, entrepreneurs,

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people with expertise. But you know, virtually every successful person

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I've ever talked to has had some form of failure

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in their lives and careers. As I say every time,

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while we all have to get our knees skinned once

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in a while, I'm driven to keep those scrapes from

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needing major surgery. Let's endeavor to learn from history so

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we don't repeat it. I've spent the better part of

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my career equipping businesses to grow from solopreneurs to small

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and medium sized companies all the way up to the

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Fortune fifty. I've seen some of those companies win, and

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to varying degrees, I've seen some fail, and I've had

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the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the highest

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performing people around and with some who probably should have

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found other professions. And in my own businesses, I've had

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lots of success, but some failures too. I like to

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think I've learned a lot from those experiences. So yeah,

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you'll hear from me, but mostly you're going to hear

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from our guests, those experts, consultants, coaches, advisors, etc.

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And today is no exception.

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My guest today's John Gates pay negotiation, negotiation expert, keynote speaker,

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and best selling author of Act Your Wage. Here's his bio.

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John Gates is an international best selling author and Egotian

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expert negotiation expert who has overseen more than seventy five

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thousand not a typo job offers during his thirty year

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career in corporate recruiting. As a former head of global

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recruiting for multiple Fortune five hundred companies, he trained hiring

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teams on how to negotiate, giving him rare insider insight

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into what actually works.

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Now.

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The creator of the salary Coach method, John helps executives

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and job seekers confidently navigate offer conversations without risking the deal.

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His sessions blend sharp strategy with a calming, practical tone

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that audiences love and apply immediately. John's a mission driven

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speaker who loves leaves professionals saying why didn't anyone teach

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me this sooner? He's the international best selling author of

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Act Your Wage, What to Say and How to Say

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It to get the best possible salary package. He holds

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a bachelor's in Management and Finance, a double major from

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the University of Oregon. He resides in Medford, Oregon, and

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has five kids, two boys and three girls. With an

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interesting story, but we'll get to that in a moment. John,

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Welcome to Winning Business Radio.

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Thanks so much Kevin for having me. I was so

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excited to hear about your show, and now that I'm here,

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I am absolutely thrilled. It's going to be a fun

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ride today.

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I agree. I agree.

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And before we're done, John, we're going to promo a

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second appearance, which is a little unusual, but we're going

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to do it.

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So tell us about your kids.

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So I have five children. Two of them, excuse me,

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two of them are biological. They're both boys, and the

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three girls are all adopted and adopted them when they

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were older. Children like most people who expand through adoption

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adopt when they are you know, children are very young.

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They do that for specific personal reasons. But you know,

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I wanted to impact the lives of people that were

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already somewhat formed and so on, and so I adopted

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two girls from Columbia, South America when they were ten

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and seven, and now they're about thirty and twenty seven,

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so they've come a long way. And adopted another girl

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from Alabama. Met her through the foster care system when

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she was sixteen, actually adopted her when she was in

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her mid to late twenties, and now she is thirty seven.

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So most people have no idea why you would adopt

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a child, or anyone for that matter, who's older than

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age eighteen. But over the years, I built a very

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personal relationship with this person, she had been involved in

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the family. I'd become a primary advisor for her in

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a lot of ways of her life. And I know

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that people who grow up without a family identity are

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at risk in a lot of ways. Like I think,

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you need to know where you belong to who you are.

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That's really foundational life for any person.

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So and I know in today's you know, in today's world,

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it's controversial to even say a father figure, but I

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believe people I think you do too, need both a

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mother and a dad.

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Yeah, absolutely true, and people who don't have that have

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a really hard time making good choices. Children who age

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out of foster care are significantly higher for criminal backgrounds,

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for single motherhood, single fatherhood. Basically, they make less desirable

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decisions throughout their life. Data bears this out. If you

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look at the prison population of the United States, a

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very large portion of those folks are people who aged

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out of the foster system without any sort of meaningful

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family connection. And if you think about it this way,

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this is kind of how it works. Like I don't

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know about you, Kevin, but when I was growing up,

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a lot of the reasons why I didn't do certain

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things is because Grandma would have been ashamed if I

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had been caught doing or I would have disappointed my

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mother or something like that kind of acts as a

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curb on your behavior. It enhances your conscience in those situations.

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But if you're growing up in a group home, which

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is where most foster teens live, who are your influencers, Well,

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they're usually going to be state employees or other foster

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kids that you're in that group home with, who are

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equally like untethered. And I think that's why bad choice

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is life altering decisions. You know, the face tattoo or

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something like that happens to you when you're in that situation.

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It's funny you were saying that, and I remember my grandmother,

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My mom's maiden name was Rachuti Italian, and she would

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my grandmother always say, would always say, make sure they

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know you're a rachutee. I mean, she was really about

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reputation and good choices. But you just reminded me of that.

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So now you grew up in Oregon as well.

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Yeah, I did. I was born here, raised here, lived

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in Portland and Eugene, graduated from the University of Oregon

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in Eugene, and then sometime around nineteen ninety eight I

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left Oregon to chase the Fortune five hundred career. I

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ended up moving to Richmond, Virginia, which is about as

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far away from Oregon as you can get and still

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be in the continental US. And after that I went

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to Birmingham, Alabama, then to Fort Wayne, Indiana, then to

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Saint Louis, Missouri, then to Houston, Texas and now back

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in Oregon. So I've lived in a lot of places.

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Yeah, we're going to talk about some of those positions.

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What were your early interests though, before college?

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Before college? A great question. So when I was in

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middle school, I wanted to be an astronaut, and that

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was no like casual interest either. I actually reverse engineered

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the path I would need to take in seventh grade.

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I did this on my own figure out well, all right,

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I thought about, how do most people get to become astronauts,

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and typically they are navy pilots something like that. And

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so how do you become a naval aviator, top gun

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guy something like that. Well, you need to have an

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appointment to the Naval Academy. How do you get that?

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You need the you know, a sponsor, like a senator

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or somebody like that usually to get you into the

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naval academy. That's very helpful. So I was thinking about

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this stuff at the age of I don't know, twelve

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or twelve years old. I was really good. What I

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was going to do was really inspired. It was a

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huge goal of mine to become an astronaut. A little

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later on in life, though, I switched over to wanting

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to be a scientist, and then I figured, well, you know,

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all the scientists of the world, they work for business people,

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and so then I decided to shift over into a

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business focus and always had a strong interest in owning

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my own company one day, so I majored in management

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and finance, thinking that that would help me toward owning

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my own company one day.

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Here, I am, what was behind your decision to go

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to your organ.

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I lived there at the time. Actually thought about getting

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into a university in California called Harvey Mud University, which

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a lot of people don't know about Harvey Mud, but

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it's like an mi I on the West Coast, very niche.

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The best science nerds of the universe go to Harvey Mutt.

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I actually didn't get in. It was a shock. I

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was one of these people. It was used to achieving everything.

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Took five advanced placement courses as a senior in high

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school science, languages, and music, so I was very very

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well rounded and active in the community, and I still

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didn't get in, very very selective. So it was after

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that that I sort of did some rediscovery and decided

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just to attend the University of Oregon because it was local.

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I was going to fund all of my own university costs.

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My family weren't in any position to help me at

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the time, so I ended up figuring out the most

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efficient path to completing university with the smallest investment possible. Man.

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Back in those days, they would charge you full time

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tuition for twelve or more credits in a term, and

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I took advantage of that, taking eighteen to twenty one

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credits a term, oh Man to to reduce the cost

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per class basically, And that was that was the way

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I was thinking about things. I guess I've always been

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a little bit of a logical pathfinder in those ways.

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Yeah. I remember my student loan payment was fifty five

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dollars a month, I mean, and I thought that was

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a lot.

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You know.

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I worked my way through college. Like Besides that sort

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of heavy courseload, I worked thirty hours a week at

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Domino's Pizza Oh wow, Yeah, slinging pizza and try not

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to speed because back then there was a thirty minute guarantee.

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They had to do away with that eventually, But that

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made working at domino Is exciting and fun. It was

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a place I.

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Can challenge every delivery, right Yeah, yeah, So how did

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you I mean kind of a big answer here, just

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maybe the last question before our first commercial break, But

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how did you get to recruiting and talent management at

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such a high level.

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Well, the first part of that is how did I

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get into it at all? Like I wanted to be

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a financial analyst and got an offer while I was

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in college to join a big tech company in Portland,

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Oregon to be a financial analyst. And three weeks before

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I got that I was supposed to start, they sent

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00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:42.600
me a message, a letter saying We're so sorry, but

225
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:47.240
we're rescinding all offers for anyone who hasn't started yet.

226
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So I had that happen to me once.

227
00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:51.879
Yeah, too bad, So sad you're laid off before you

228
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:56.360
even start. And so I was in a position where

229
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:59.960
I was newly married, had a son on the way

230
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:06.559
he wasn't born yet, my first son, and terrified. So

231
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I ended up just networking like crazy. It took me

232
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:12.399
three months in a poor economy in the Pacific Northwest

233
00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:17.080
to find my job after college, and I ended up

234
00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:21.799
recruiting for a temporary agency in Portland. They hired me

235
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because I had a degree and I could speak Spanish,

236
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and I looked good in a suit, and that was

237
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.879
the criteria. They wanted me to go open a new

238
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:36.519
office in Hillsboro, which and that was heavily hispanic at

239
00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:40.600
the time, and they wanted someone who could recruit that population,

240
00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:45.120
translate all the testing and application materials, and then dispatch

241
00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.519
people on temporary assignment. And that's how I got my job,

242
00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:51.720
first job in recruiting, and I've been there ever since.

243
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.960
Five years later, I decided to join corporate recruiting, leave

244
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the temporary agency industry behind, and very quickly rose into leadership.

245
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So I think by the time two thousand and two

246
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.759
came around, I was leading a recruiting function, building one

247
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from scratch, and then went into leadership in the Fortune

248
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:15.399
five hundred.

249
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Well, all right, hold that thought, everybody.

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We're going to come right back with John Gates in

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about a minute after this break.

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You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene on

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W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

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Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up

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And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin hell Man,

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00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.200
presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in

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mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again

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is Kevin Helena.

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Welcome back.

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We are with John Gates, pay negotiation expert, best selling

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international best selling author and keynote speaker. You you're judging

283
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:33.759
from I use LinkedIn as a source document. Of course,

284
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.559
you joined it T which is a company that I

285
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.240
haven't heard a lot about, even though they're giant. I

286
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.559
was in the private career school business and I of

287
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.039
course remember it T Tech and knew some people that.

288
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Worked there as a divisional recruiting leader. Tell us about

289
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:51.599
that role.

290
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:54.960
And we'll get into some of the others as well.

291
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:58.240
That was interesting, actually, he takeaways yet.

292
00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.480
Yeah, I started that job actually as a response to

293
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.839
the two thousand and seven two thousand and eight financial

294
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:10.119
crisis that we all know about. Before that, I actually

295
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.759
took a chance and started my own recruiting business the

296
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:19.519
first time, hung out my own shingle and decided to

297
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.240
specialize in the mining sector because that was what I

298
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.119
was just coming out of talent acquisition in the mining sector.

299
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:28.599
Was going to do a lot of headhunting in that.

300
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.599
And then I sensed the economic headwinds of the two

301
00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.799
thousand Starting in two thousand and seven, I didn't know

302
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.119
if I had the right financial depth to weather a

303
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:41.680
significant storm, and I didn't know if this was going

304
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:46.880
to be a blip or a tsunami. So I decided

305
00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:49.240
to shutter the business, and I took this job in

306
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:54.640
Fort Wayne, Indiana. And this ITT at the time was

307
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:58.920
a conglomerate company they controlled. It was a lot of

308
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.240
technology and so on. At one time in the past,

309
00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.519
I think the IT Technical Institute was part of their holdings,

310
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.160
but they divested that and still now people when they

311
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:15.200
hear the name, they think of the technical school. But

312
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.880
this in Fort Wayne, Indiana, they were making battlefield radios

313
00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:23.440
for the US Army, so all the radio units that

314
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:25.960
slide into a hum vy or fit into a tank

315
00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:31.839
or something like that. They were also doing satellite navigation equipment,

316
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.640
things that would give surveillance advantage to troops on the ground.

317
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.400
But it was a defense company and for the last

318
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.839
twenty five or thirty years they'd been operating that facility

319
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:50.039
producing this kind of technical equipment for the military, And

320
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.000
so I thought, Hey, this will be a nice safe

321
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.000
place to go and be and if I like it,

322
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:59.279
I can stay there. Two and a half three years later,

323
00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.960
I got laid off because the defense industry just got

324
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:08.359
hammered with massive budget cuts in the federal government. And

325
00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:13.319
I had this was the most advanced sort of talent

326
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:17.000
acquisition job that was available in the small community of

327
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.200
Fort Wayne, Indiana at the time. So I was pretty

328
00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:22.240
sure I was going to have to relocate if I

329
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.160
was going to continue my career in ta and that's

330
00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.880
what then moved me to Saint Louis, Missouri, and that

331
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:35.240
was Pebety Energy YEP. Worked for Peabody Energy for four years.

332
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:40.319
Global Mining Powerhouse. What a fun company to work for.

333
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:42.920
Some of the best people I've ever met in my

334
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:49.279
professional life worked at Peabody Energy and they had mining

335
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:51.559
operations all over the planet, and I was ahead of

336
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.400
recruiting there, so I was responsible directly for all recruiting

337
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.759
in the US and dotted line responsibility for all Australia

338
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.839
and China and any other markets that they wanted to

339
00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:09.160
expand into. They were toying with the idea of launching

340
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:14.359
a mine in Mongolia, in southern Mongolia, and I had

341
00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.799
the responsibility to figure out the staffing plan for that mine,

342
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.400
and that was really really fun. How are you going

343
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.960
to staff it? You need hundreds and hundreds of people

344
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:28.400
where no people live. I saw pictures of the Gobi

345
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:31.799
Desert in Mongolia and it looked like Mars Kevin. It

346
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:37.079
was like red sand. No trees, just rocks and sand

347
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:43.599
and everything from hundreds of miles around. After I got

348
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.680
far down the path of figuring out how are we

349
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:50.720
going to staff that, the company ended up curtailing that

350
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.720
investment because they couldn't come to terms with the Chinese government.

351
00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:01.720
And you would imagine that what is China have to

352
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:06.160
say about what happens in southern Mongolia. It has to

353
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:09.920
do with flight evacuations. If somebody gets hurt at the mindsight,

354
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.279
you want to be able to evacuate the wounded person.

355
00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:20.920
And Peabody else has always had a gold plated philosophy

356
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.720
around safety. That was something that I truly loved about

357
00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:30.160
representing them as a recruiter. They were always much more

358
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.160
concerned about safety than a lot of other mining companies,

359
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.880
and they couldn't get clear like flying that close to

360
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:45.480
the border of China, if you have an uncleared flight

361
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:47.559
plan or something like that, you're just going to get

362
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:53.039
shot down. So we couldn't resolve that issue, and so

363
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:58.079
decided to scuttle the whole idea of doing this based

364
00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:00.359
on that. Until that could be fixed, there was just

365
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.000
no way they would commit to building something there that

366
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:09.359
was going to last for one hundred and forty years, So.

367
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:12.839
That would have been almost like generating or creating a

368
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:13.720
city or town.

369
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.000
Yeah. Yeah, it's like picture of the old fashioned company

370
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:22.799
town where you would have told build a town with

371
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:26.119
all the infrastructure of a town, a fire department, a

372
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.000
police department, housing for people, place for them to get food,

373
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:37.240
and entertainment, everything else. Yes, schools are kids, and then

374
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.799
training infrastructure, like how are you going to teach the

375
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.319
rural Mongolian population who doesn't know how to drive a

376
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.759
car to drive a four hundred ton rock truck safely?

377
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:53.319
And you've probably seen these giant mining rigs where the

378
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.079
tires are twice the size of a man. You could

379
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.039
run over an f one point fifty and not even

380
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:04.000
know you've done it in one of those. So there

381
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.559
was a lot and we were imagining that this would

382
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:12.880
be a multi generational situation where you would recruit Mongolian

383
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.559
nationals to staff most of the mind. You would bring

384
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:20.319
in initially international expats to lead and train and do

385
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.599
all that with a period of time where you're going

386
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.640
to hand over and train up to Mongolian nationals over

387
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:32.079
the course of several years, eventually just handing the whole

388
00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:35.880
thing off to mostly local people, and then you would

389
00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:40.759
probably employ their children and then maybe even their grandchildren.

390
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.240
So sorry, it reminds me of visiting the Hoover Dam

391
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:48.519
and they built Boulder City.

392
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:54.119
M That sort of idea doesn't exist often in today's economy,

393
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.880
But in the mining business I learned that it's geologic time. Really,

394
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:05.440
it takes years to create to go from greenfield project

395
00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:10.519
to actual revenue production. So you have to be looking

396
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:13.720
at the price of commodities and be pretty sure that

397
00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.039
three four or five years from now, when you're starting

398
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:22.000
to get the money recouped from your investments, that the

399
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.240
commodity price is going to justify actually operating the thing.

400
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:31.799
So every mining project has break even point, just like

401
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.119
anything else. I learned this in the oil business as well.

402
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:39.359
You might have a price per ton of I don't

403
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.960
know for coal, maybe it's twenty dollars a ton or something.

404
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:47.119
It's like that. Well, if it costs you twenty two

405
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.720
dollars a ton to get it out of the ground,

406
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.519
you're not gonna You're just gonna shutterer the thing until

407
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:57.000
the economy or the price of that commodity shifts to

408
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.319
where it's favorable. And there was an old say in

409
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:02.599
that industry that you've got to make You've got to

410
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:06.599
make hay while the sun is shining. So if the

411
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.960
commodity prices go way up and you have an operating asset,

412
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.680
you're going to try to double staff, triple staff, you know,

413
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.799
do what you can to produce, to expand production during

414
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.720
that window, because there will come a time. Sure is

415
00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:25.559
anything a few years down the road where the commodity

416
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.319
price goes below what it costs you to get it out,

417
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:33.880
and then you're laying people off, you're slowing things down,

418
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:36.640
you're waiting for the market to return.

419
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.359
So after that, you made it to Marathon Oil head

420
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:46.599
of talent acquisition mm hmm yep.

421
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.759
I moved out of Saint Louis down to Houston, Texas

422
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:55.319
to take on the head of talent acquisition for Marathon Oil.

423
00:26:55.480 --> 00:27:00.240
And that was a terrific job. I reported to a

424
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:06.319
challenging personality there. That was fun. And for those listening,

425
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:10.359
you probably have also had times when you had great

426
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:17.119
bosses and difficult bosses to work for. And so three

427
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:20.799
months after joining Marathon Oil, the price of oil dropped

428
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.119
from ninety five dollars a barrow to sixty five dollars

429
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:29.440
a barrel. Huge, yep, and their break even point was

430
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:33.720
somewhere in the forties. And then over the next few

431
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.240
months after that it went from sixty five down to

432
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:43.519
a low of twenty six dollars a barrel. So that

433
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:47.799
was a shock. They were underwater. And this has been

434
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:50.240
the case throughout my career. When you are the head

435
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.160
of town acquisition or you work in corporate recruiting. As

436
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:56.480
soon as the company you work for decides it's time

437
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.519
to get smaller, the people who make the company bigger

438
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:04.640
are pretty easy targets for layoff packages stuff for that.

439
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:10.880
So I helped Marathon Oil go through four rounds of layoffs,

440
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:15.319
you know, having the conversations, escorting people out of the building,

441
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.039
doing all that until the fun part. Yeah, it was

442
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.400
finally down to me and an ACE recruiter that I

443
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.799
had selected and hired. We were the only survivors of

444
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:32.279
the talent acquisition team at that point and more cutting

445
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:35.680
had to be made. So they decided to cut the

446
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:39.000
expensive head of the function and take the ACE recruiter

447
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:43.680
and fold her under another HR leader. That was something

448
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:46.680
they felt they could do at the time, so I

449
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.640
took a layoff package and hung out my shingle again.

450
00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:53.759
So yeah, Recruiting Transformations tell us about that company.

451
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:58.559
Yeah. So, Recruiting Transformations is a company where I help

452
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.400
manufact acting businesses mainly to fix their broken recruiting process.

453
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:07.359
So if they takes too long to hire people, or

454
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.920
they're spending too much money on search agencies, or their

455
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:16.160
internal recruiting function has a bad reputation, or they seem

456
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:20.519
unresponsive or something needs to be done and they don't

457
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:23.200
know how to fix that problem, then I can go

458
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:25.440
in and help them fix it. And sometimes I act

459
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.960
as an interim leader if they've just fired their head

460
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:34.640
of recruiting or somebody is on a maternity leave or

461
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:39.160
something like that. I love those interim leadership gigs. Those

462
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.920
are a lot of fun. But I did that for

463
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.240
several years before starting Salary Coach.

464
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:47.240
Can you give us a couple of highlights?

465
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:56.640
Yeah, so, I guess the best highlight of that time

466
00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:01.880
with Recruiting Transformations is a company called DLL, which is

467
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:06.759
a financial services company based in the Netherlands. Their head

468
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.200
of recruiting was going to go on maternity leave and

469
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.720
so they reached out to me to ask me if

470
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:17.880
I would cover during that time. But also the head

471
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.039
of HR wanted to know if there was anything that

472
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:23.440
could be done to improve the function. So while I

473
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:25.799
was going to be there for three months holding down

474
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.759
the fort, she wanted me to do my typical analysis

475
00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:33.240
and diagnosis of what could be improved and build a

476
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:38.000
roadmap for that, so when the current TA leader came back,

477
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:40.599
she would have a list of action items and things

478
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:45.240
to pursue. Well, she came back for about a week

479
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:47.240
and then decided that she didn't want to come back

480
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.559
after all, and then they extended me. I ended up

481
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:57.680
doing that for a year. It was completely remote and

482
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.519
so it was all during the pandemic and travel restrictions.

483
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:06.279
Nobody was traveling anywhere, so I was in zoom calls

484
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:10.319
all day long working on stuff, fixing stuff, rolling out

485
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:13.960
new process. That was an absolute blast, and I left

486
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.920
there on extremely good terms. I missed the team very much.

487
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.200
In fact, behind me somewhere here, I've got a picture

488
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.839
of me with the team. We finally were allowed to

489
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.400
gather face to face nice to finally build a global

490
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:33.640
recruiting process. So that company they were operating in like

491
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:39.319
twenty seven to thirty countries worldwide, and each country had

492
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:43.119
its own recruiting process, and so that was a big

493
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:46.079
thing where we're trying to achieve together was to create

494
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:51.119
a uniform global recruiting process that everyone could agree to.

495
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.440
We needed to get there so that we could share

496
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:00.480
recruiting resources. So say the Germany recruiter was slow, it

497
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.720
would be very difficult for them to help out the

498
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:08.319
recruiter in Southern Europe because the processes were completely different. Now,

499
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:11.839
with a uniform process, we could share resources across boundaries

500
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:18.839
much easier that way, So that's one. I also was

501
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:24.240
interim head of HR for a company called Analogic, and

502
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.079
Analogic is in Boston. They make the stuff that scans

503
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:32.559
your bags at the airport for explosives and things that

504
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:38.920
shouldn't be there. Very interesting. I love technology companies. I

505
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:45.519
relate really well to engineers and just love the talent

506
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:52.559
issues with engineering heavy companies. So that was an interesting situation.

507
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.799
Lasted about seven months and it was really sort of like,

508
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.759
I don't know, it was nebulous. It was one of

509
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.480
these things that wasn't scoped really well. They wanted the

510
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:09.759
improvement roadmap. I was acting like an interim head, but

511
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:14.480
didn't have that formal title, so it was it was

512
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.359
just a little bit squishy here and there, a lot

513
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.440
of political nuance within that company. I really enjoyed the

514
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:25.799
time there. Ultimately helped them to select and hire a

515
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:32.119
new permanent head of HR. And she's been phenomenal in

516
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:36.000
terms of taking what I started and finishing it with

517
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:39.599
her own set of priorities and so on. So I

518
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:40.880
like doing that kind of work.

519
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:43.319
All right, We're going to take another break right here

520
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.519
for about a minute. Everybody will be back in just

521
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:47.960
a minute with John Gates.

522
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:55.240
You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helenet on

523
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:59.440
W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.

524
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547
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And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene,

548
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.719
presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in

549
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.280
mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again

550
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:34.880
is Kevin Helene.

551
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.480
We are back again with John Gates. So tell us

552
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.760
take us from a sante or santy I think in

553
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.280
healthcare and then to salary coach in twenty one.

554
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:58.320
Yep, yep, okay, so excuse me. So, after a while

555
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:01.119
of consulting I decided it was time to come back

556
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:04.920
to Oregon, and I had an opportunity to join a

557
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:08.840
company which is a significant healthcare provider in southern Oregon,

558
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.920
and they were going to pay for my relocation and

559
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:17.800
everything back to Oregon. So I thought, well, Okay, maybe

560
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:21.000
it's time for me to dive back into the corporate world.

561
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:26.159
I was really aligning with a mission of Assante. It's

562
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:31.039
a regional healthcare company, so they have three hospitals and

563
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:36.000
over fifty medical clinics throughout southern Oregon. And I never

564
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.880
lived in Southern Oregon. It sounds like a really cool opportunity,

565
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.480
and I loved the people of this place, so it

566
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:48.239
was a great chance for me to come and do that.

567
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:51.159
And just like a lot of opportunities though, you start

568
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:55.400
working and you have this dream boss that you're working for,

569
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.440
and people listening might be able to relate to this.

570
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:03.079
You join a company because there's such amazing alignment between

571
00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:05.960
what you want to do and what your boss wants

572
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:12.599
you to do. And so there was a CEO shift

573
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:18.039
a couple of years into my tenure with Assante. The

574
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:22.679
old CEO retired, they brought in a new CEO, and

575
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:28.800
the new CEO fired my boss, so he fired a

576
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:36.800
couple of people actually, and the new boss, the new

577
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:40.920
head of HR, had conflicts with me and what I

578
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:45.360
wanted to do. So I performed best with a boss

579
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.920
who says, I don't know a lot about recruiting. John,

580
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:51.880
I'm hiring you because you know a lot about it,

581
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.719
So please go solve these problems. Just tell me how

582
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:58.239
you're going to go about it, and then I'll provide

583
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.719
you some political cover bridge and the budget that you

584
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:06.079
need and everything else. So the new head of HR

585
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:13.400
was an absolute micromanager, and I die under that kind

586
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:22.960
of leadership. I can't handle it. The days grew from

587
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:26.960
ten hour days to fourteen plus hour days trying to

588
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:32.320
please the micromanaging nature of playing bows and that was tough.

589
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:34.840
So I thought, well, you know, it's time for me

590
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:40.400
to leave and to go back to being independent because

591
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:45.960
that's what I truly love doing. So I got back

592
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:52.320
into recruiting transformations. And then sometime during the you know,

593
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:56.360
following the Great Resignation, I don't know if you remember, Yeah,

594
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.360
there was a period of time where during the pandemic

595
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:04.280
where everyone was quitting their jobs and companies were hiring

596
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:08.119
lots of people, and it was a very favorable recruiting environment.

597
00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:12.400
Sometime during that then, the FED started to raise interest rates,

598
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:17.119
and I knew from all the previous shifts in my

599
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:23.239
career that and rapid increases of the interest rate is

600
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.760
going to cool the hiring economy quite a bit. I

601
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:30.840
knew that was coming, and so I started thinking, Well,

602
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:37.039
if recruiting nationwide or even internationally hits the skids, what

603
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:40.840
is it that I'm going to do? And I started

604
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.199
thinking about all the things that I was good at.

605
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:45.800
What could I offer? And that's how I came up

606
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:49.360
with salary coach. Because for years and years I had

607
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.039
helped friends and family to negotiate their pay. I knew

608
00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:55.480
a lot about how to do that safely because I

609
00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:58.119
was the guy on the other side of the negotiating

610
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:03.400
table or my whole career. I knew what mistakes look like.

611
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.400
I knew what annoyance. I knew what would annoy me,

612
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.440
what would annoy hiring managers, what would introduce risks? I

613
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.320
knew what would be the safe path forward, And so

614
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:19.079
I just took some time and I developed a salary

615
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:23.960
coach method. I wrote Act your Wage, I launched Salary coach.

616
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.480
But before I did any of that, I did a

617
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:31.039
pilot program a few years ago, maybe four years ago now.

618
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.039
I went out to LinkedIn and I found some job

619
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:38.840
seekers and I said, I'm thinking about launching this as

620
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.880
a product line, but I want to test if I

621
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.159
can work effectively with people that I don't know, that

622
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:49.239
aren't members of my inner circle. So I'll do this

623
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:53.239
for you for free. I'll be your advisor. I'll tell

624
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:56.880
you how to navigate the upcoming offer process or the

625
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.000
money conversations at every step, I'll walk you through that

626
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.960
as a silent advisor, and let's measure the results together.

627
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:06.800
And if you want to do this, I'll do it

628
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:10.239
for free. I just wanted to test it. And every

629
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:12.400
single one of I did that with ten people, every

630
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:15.199
single one of them had a gain. The lowest gain

631
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:18.800
was nine thousand, and the highest was in the low fifties.

632
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:21.360
I think it was fifty two to fifty four thousand

633
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:25.280
gain in the package. And then as soon as I

634
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:27.719
finished that, I knew I had a business that could

635
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.880
be win win, that would be helpful to the people

636
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:37.920
that need that help. And I really started realizing just

637
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:41.480
how many people leave money on the table I tracked

638
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:45.679
this when I was ahead of recruiting. I started doing

639
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:49.239
that when I worked for Capital one Financial around y

640
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.280
two K because i'd, you know, just been I'd already

641
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:55.920
been laid off a couple of times. I wanted the

642
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.960
self defense of data, and so I started tracking it.

643
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.239
I set a goal, Kevin, to cover my annual salary

644
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:10.880
every month in negotiation savings. So I knew how much

645
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:14.760
money people were leaving on the table, and I achieved

646
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:21.280
that that goal ten months out of twelve. Typically. It

647
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:25.719
was something that I felt would insulate me from future layoffs.

648
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:29.960
So I started tracking it. And it is shocking how

649
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.679
much money people leave on the table and they don't

650
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:38.559
know they're doing it. The typical experienced professional is probably

651
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:43.679
leaving five figures on the table. Somebody who's senior it

652
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:46.679
could well be six figures. I just closed a deal

653
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:50.400
out today with a six figure game, nearly two hundred

654
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:51.920
thousand dollars in the package.

655
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:57.440
So you talk about mindsets, sorry to interrupting. Mindset's being critical,

656
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:02.079
and fear is one of those mindsets, right, absolutely a

657
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:02.480
little bit.

658
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:07.199
Yeah, So fear is when I was writing Actor Wage,

659
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:11.000
I asked, I interviewed one hundred people, men and women,

660
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:16.519
and I asked them, do you negotiate? Do you not negotiate?

661
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.800
Do you do? You? Kind of pick at it, poke

662
00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:22.199
at it. I ended up concluding that my statistics were

663
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:27.360
still right. Eighty percent of people don't negotiate at all,

664
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:31.159
or it's just a very very light approach to negotiating.

665
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:35.639
I'd say, of the remaining twenty percent, ten percent screw

666
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:39.360
it up phenomenally bad, and the other ten percent do

667
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:47.400
it effectively. And what happens, though, is you apply to

668
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:51.079
a job you want, right you go through the application process,

669
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.199
and then the phone rings. It's a job you want,

670
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:58.000
and somebody like me will say, hey, Kevin, what's your

671
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:03.000
salary expectation? And you know it's a screening question. You

672
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:06.400
know you don't have much leverage right now because nobody

673
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.599
knows about you except for the screener. You really want

674
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:12.519
to interview with a hiring manager, and there's this gatekeeper

675
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:17.599
you have to get by. So you're afraid that if

676
00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:20.920
you answer this question wrong, you're going to lose the

677
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:25.800
chance to interview and move forward, and that fear pushes

678
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:29.039
you into a corner. Really, you tend to low ball

679
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:32.280
yourself right at this point, or you do the opposite

680
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:34.800
and you give a number that's way too large, thinking

681
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:38.159
you have leverage that you don't, and then you get

682
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.519
screened out, and those both of those things happen. You

683
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:46.400
know that there's high stakes, you know, when you are

684
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:51.119
interviewing for a job, especially if you're unemployed, the fear

685
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.880
is better because the stakes are there. Right, you've already

686
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.679
figured out when you become homeless because you don't have

687
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:02.800
a salary or an come. You might have a severance

688
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:06.880
package or something like that, and so the pressure is

689
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:10.320
on to get something and get it fast. And because

690
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:14.239
of that pressure, you'll settle, settle for less. You just

691
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.639
want to get rid of this uncertainty in your life.

692
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:21.360
And this happens at the offer stage too. That's why

693
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.119
people don't negotiate. They get the offer that they see

694
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:29.760
the they see the promised land of stable employment and

695
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:35.239
an income returned and benefits, health insurance. All these things

696
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:40.239
are things they cannot afford to risk letting go stock

697
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:43.519
hostro Yeah, and they're worried that if they push it,

698
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:48.920
they will lose the chance to move forward, and or

699
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:51.159
they'll have their offer yanked away and then they'll have

700
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:55.400
to explain to their entourage of people that depend upon them, Yeah,

701
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.519
that they you know, screwed it up at the finish line,

702
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.280
and they don't want that to happen, so so they

703
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:06.239
play it except excessively safe. And so, like I'm in

704
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:11.519
a my whole practice is built around how to minimize

705
00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:16.679
the risk of these conversations while maximizing the offer. And

706
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:18.880
there are ways to do that. Most people just don't

707
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.239
know how, and that's what I offer.

708
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:24.519
Can you give a summary, I mean without revealing too much,

709
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:27.679
because I'm sure it's a proprietary process that people pay for,

710
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:30.559
but can you give us a generalization of it's a

711
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.199
five step process, right.

712
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.440
Yeah, there's a salary coach method. And so the first

713
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:40.119
thing you have to do is satisfy the screener who's

714
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:44.679
going to ask you that first pay question with an

715
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:48.119
answer that's going to help you get the interview without

716
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:53.559
destroying your ability to negotiate later. You can't paint yourself

717
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.880
into a corner right there, just to you know, you

718
00:46:56.920 --> 00:47:01.159
can't sell your future offer cheap just to get the interview.

719
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:05.920
And this happens all the time. So there's that. And

720
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:08.440
then once you get the interview, you have to climb

721
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:12.239
up the value ladder in the interview. So you have

722
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:14.800
to learn to answer interview questions in a way that

723
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:19.639
frames you as a high value person because what comes

724
00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:27.280
next is the offer approval process. This is very political sometimes.

725
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.360
So let's say you were the hiring manager Kevin, and

726
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.320
you decide that you're going to hire me. There are

727
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.360
people above you that have to sign off on the

728
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:40.519
offer typically, and you have to go to them and

729
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:44.440
justify why you want that much money or that title

730
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:50.199
or all that stuff. And so the best strategy is

731
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:53.480
to get the highest value in the mind of Kevin,

732
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:56.440
the hiring manager, so that he can go with bat

733
00:47:56.519 --> 00:48:01.159
for you and justify a high offer initially. Then in

734
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:05.280
the offer and counteroffer process, we're only tweaking instead of

735
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:09.719
having to rebuild. You know, if that initial offer comes

736
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:14.079
in thirty percent low, it is intensely difficult to go

737
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:18.280
back and adjust that they've already decided that you're in

738
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:23.719
that sort of lower tier. They've already made that case.

739
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:27.000
With approvers, it's going to be really difficult to go back.

740
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:31.559
This is where the insider information that I have comes

741
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:34.440
into play and really helps people to get it right

742
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:39.280
the first time and so then there's you're going to

743
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:42.159
get an offer and here's a key that I'll give

744
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:46.320
away for free. Don't accept the offer immediately, even if

745
00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:49.800
you love it. That is a massive mistake that most

746
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:54.199
people make. There's almost always extra money on the table somewhere.

747
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.679
So what I do, which is proprietary, is I help

748
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:02.679
people with the process to discover what's still on the

749
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.480
table without putting the offer at risk and then creating

750
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:14.519
a counter offer proposal that also does not create a

751
00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:15.920
lot of risk for you.

752
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:17.400
And people you focus.

753
00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:20.440
Sorry, go ahead, Sorry, yeah, I was going to say.

754
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:23.320
Most people think negotiation like this is a high stakes

755
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.280
game of Chicken, where you put out an ultimatum. You know,

756
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:30.360
here's what I want, take it or leave it. That's

757
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:33.280
a very high risk strategy that we don't do at

758
00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:34.000
Salary Coach.

759
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:38.679
So I know you focus, excuse me, on the total compensation,

760
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:41.519
not just salary.

761
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:43.119
Correct, that's correct.

762
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:47.079
So there could be stock options or additional stock options,

763
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:49.119
sign on bonus as you mentioned that in the book.

764
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:53.440
Oh yeah, there's probably a dozen or more different ways

765
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:57.400
that you can get value into the package. So one

766
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.360
of the things that happened in today's Steele is I

767
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:04.960
happen to, and I can notice things that the average

768
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.360
person doesn't notice. When you get an offer letter, for example,

769
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:11.360
I can look at it and say, there's something big

770
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:16.199
that's missing here that might be included in an offer

771
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:19.400
at your level. A lot of companies will include it.

772
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:22.519
So let's go after that and see if it's there.

773
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:24.719
This example was.

774
00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:27.880
Severans so interesting.

775
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:32.840
The hiring company was a private equity firm. And in

776
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:35.920
case you don't know this, private equity firms they buy

777
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.280
and sell companies just like house flippers buy and sell houses.

778
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.719
They will buy a company that they think is undervalued,

779
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:45.239
they'll fix the things that are wrong with that company,

780
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.599
and then they'll go back to the market in a

781
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:51.480
three to five year window usually and sell that business.

782
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:54.119
They might buy it for two hundred million with a

783
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.079
goal that in three years they're going to sell that

784
00:50:56.199 --> 00:50:59.880
for six hundred million, and that's how they make their money.

785
00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:07.519
So that was this situation. Private equity company owned this business,

786
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:10.719
and this was a C suite, you know, sea level

787
00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:18.639
position within that private that firm that they owned, that

788
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:22.400
asset that they owned. We knew through the interview process

789
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:25.519
that they're selling. They're they're selling the business timeline was

790
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.599
two years. They're going to sell this in two years. Well,

791
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.039
what happens to the c suite and a company that

792
00:51:33.079 --> 00:51:37.800
gets sold to another business? Sometimes they keep their jobs,

793
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:44.960
sometimes they do not. And so you want to have

794
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:49.159
an equity stake so that when that business is sold

795
00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:53.239
there's a significant financial windfall for you. But also you

796
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:55.679
have depending on your age and stage, like if you

797
00:51:55.719 --> 00:52:00.840
were fifty eight or sixty years old or something like that. Yeah,

798
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:05.119
and the sale is happening when you're sixty two, how

799
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:07.239
hard is it going to be to get the next gig?

800
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:10.400
How much longer is it going to take? Realism?

801
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:11.920
That happens so many times.

802
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:16.760
Agism is a real problem, real problem. Once you round

803
00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:19.079
the corner of fifty, you will start to realize that

804
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.000
it's not as easy to land as it used to be.

805
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:27.239
And the harder, the more weird the employment market, that

806
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:30.719
the longer it's going to take you to land.

807
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:33.760
John, we have to wrap this up. I just noticed

808
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.599
the time. How do people reach out? What's the best

809
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:40.280
way for them to contact you if they want more information?

810
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:42.960
All right, thank you, Kevin. The very best way is

811
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:47.559
probably to hit me at John at salary dot Coach perfect.

812
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:51.199
It's not dot com, it's dot coach. That's the best way,

813
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.320
John at Salary dot coach, and you can ask me

814
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:55.480
any question and we can see if it might be

815
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:57.440
right to work together. Perfect.

816
00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.159
Now, this is something I mentioned at the beginning that

817
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:03.599
I don't do very often. I've already invited John back

818
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:06.840
next month. It's going to be March twenty third. He's

819
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.760
going to share on a different topic. And the promo

820
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:14.599
is this, what if starting a consulting business isn't reckless

821
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:18.400
but a faithful, well aligned next step, John will introduce

822
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:22.400
the Crossroads, which is a proven faith aligned path that

823
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:26.880
helps Christian corporate leaders launch their first consulting business in

824
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:31.719
just six weeks without burning bridges, underpricing themselves, or wandering

825
00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:35.239
in uncertainty. And I'm really looking forward to that, and

826
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:38.039
we will have another good conversation at that time.

827
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:39.960
John, thank you so much for being here. We really

828
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:40.599
appreciate it.

829
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.199
Thank you, Kevin. I'm looking forward to to It's going

830
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:44.719
to be a blast, just like this was.

831
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:48.440
All right one more time, John at Salary dot coach.

832
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.840
Correct, Thank you, Kevin. Perfect, and thanks.

833
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:54.159
Everybody for watching and listening. This is a show about

834
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:57.559
business and business challenges. If you've got concerns about the

835
00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:00.480
sales effectiveness of your company, whether you're sales team, is

836
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:03.559
you or small or large, feel free to reach out

837
00:54:03.559 --> 00:54:07.239
to me on Facebook or LinkedIn at Winning Business Radio

838
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.400
or drop me a note one of my many email

839
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:13.440
addresses Kevin at Winning Business Radio dot com. Thank you

840
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:16.079
to producer and engineer one for another job well done.

841
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:18.639
Be sure to join us again next week. That's Monday,

842
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:20.519
February ninth. We're going to do it all over again.

843
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:22.360
Until then, this is Kevin Hallanan.

844
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:27.199
You've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host,

845
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:30.400
Kevin Halenan. If you missed any part of this episode,

846
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:34.639
the podcast is available on Talk for Podcasting and iHeartRadio.

847
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:38.800
For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio

848
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.920
dot com or check us out on social media. Tune

849
00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:44.039
in again next week and every Monday at four pm

850
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:47.559
Eastern Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on

851
00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:52.119
W four CY Radio W fourcy dot com. Until then,

852
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.079
let's succeed where others have failed and win in business

853
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:59.119
with Kevin Helenan and Winning Business Radio

854
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:01.119
James